omeroj Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 THE BID START BY YOU:PASS 1♦ X PASS1♥ 1♠ X PASS?What do you bid on second dbl of your p? [hv=d=n&v=n&s=s86hkj32dk54c9543]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Tks for answers Omero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochinko Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Partner is 3=3=3=4 or 3=3=2=5. 2C looks right. Petko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Pass, pd has spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Ok, I have a good hand for bidding. Let's dismiss pass. Responder has some spades for his pass. Partner can hardly have enough spades and be short enough in diamonds for this double to be left in with only two spades in my hand. After all, they rate to have at least eight and likely 9 card diamond fit if partner is sitting on a spade stack. Let's also dismiss weak sounding bids like 1NT and 2♣. This hand is a monster given the bidding so far. So that leaves, hedge bids. like cue-bid, 2NT, and a jump to 3♣ and just blasting away to 3NT. I think the only way to show your hand here is a direct NT bid, and 1NT is not enough. I would bid 3NT, but would accept a natural 2NT as a reasonable alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Also in the pass camp...Partner has a strong hand and my Hearts didn't interest him.He should be sitting on good Spades. White versus White I prefer to punish them...If they retreat to Diamonds there is still time to bid NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Pd has about 18+ balanced hand. I bid 2N to invite. 3N is not a bad shoot. 2C is completely wrong in strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Definitely pass... partner must have 15+ with good spades.There is absolutely NO NEED for takeout when there is only one suit remaining. With balanced strong hands, he has the following actions:1NT directly 15-171NT now as a rebid 18-192NT now as 20-22 If he is 18+ with anything, he has the easy 2♦ cuebid if he lacks stoppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omeroj Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Tks you all for the answers, i hope to see other votes;) Omero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I think partner's double shows extra values. Most likely hand involves something like 15 (or more) points with only three-card support for hearts. Since the double's not pure penalty, and the opponents surely have a 7-card spade fit and probably a better fit in diamonds, I don't think pass is a particularly good option. With a terrible hand I probably bid 2♣ or 2♥ here. The decision seems to be between 1NT and 2NT as best I can tell. I'll play it slow with 1NT; I don't think partner guarantees more than 15 or so and I'd rather play 1NT than two opposite that (especially with only one diamond stopper). Surely the 1NT call doesn't show a yarborough, and partner can raise to 2NT with a really huge hand (like 18 or more). Certainly I would also bid 1NT on a slightly weaker hand (say xx Qxxx Kxx xxxx) and seven points must be the top of the range, but I'd hate to hear 2NT get passed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Seems pretty clear that partner is 4324 or 4315 and is alerting you to his good hand, his shape, and his so-so fit for hearts. Partner is not expecting to play 1S but is prepared to - he's trying to help you decide what to do over the coming 2D bid from your RHO. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I bid 3NT. Should make, unless pard likes feather-weight doubles. (In which case I bid 1NT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 If I trust partner, I pass. He doubled for penalties.Ben trusts his RHO more than partner (which could be quite valid in some situations, of course...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Pard may be doubling for penalties, but he also may be just showing cards. I'm not going to wait until the end of the hand to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 This is not a penalty double. Partner probably has four spades so pass may be right but I don't think so. 2NT or 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Pard may be doubling for penalties, but he also may be just showing cards. I'm not going to wait until the end of the hand to find out. Why would partner be "showing cards" against my weak response? I know that he is not extra strong (18+) as he would cuebid opener's first suit now. I know he does not have 4 hearts (he would raise to 3♥). He knows that I have 0-8 HCP with 4+hearts. With 15-17HCP he may freely pass as I will 100% double 1♠ for takeout if I happen to have 6+HCP, I will 100% bid 2♥ if I have 5card and 4HCP, I will 100% bid 1NT if I have 7-8 HCP with some stoppers. This seems to be the typical case where people forget that they have a partner that is not stupid :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I think partner's double shows something like a 4324 with 17(16)+ HCPs. He would not cuebid with such a hand because I must still have the option of bidding 2♣ if I have nothing. A cuebid would probably be a constructive hearts raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 3C. If he is interested in the diamond stopper, he can ask for it. Marlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I think partner's double shows something like a 4324 with 17(16)+ HCPs. He would not cuebid with such a hand because I must still have the option of bidding 2♣ if I have nothing. A cuebid would probably be a constructive hearts raise. Wouldn't 3♥ be constructive heart raise? No need to block, simple fit showing would be 2♥. If partner is strong enough to be interested in 4-4 club fit against weak hand (0-4(5)), he can afford to push me to 3rd level by 2♦ cuebid. If he has mere 17 HCP with flat shape and no diamond stopper, he can't expect any good contract to be found unless I am willing to speak over 1♠ on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Pard may be doubling for penalties, but he also may be just showing cards. I'm not going to wait until the end of the hand to find out. Why would partner be "showing cards" against my weak response? I know that he is not extra strong (18+) as he would cuebid opener's first suit now. I know he does not have 4 hearts (he would raise to 3♥). He knows that I have 0-8 HCP with 4+hearts. With 15-17HCP he may freely pass as I will 100% double 1♠ for takeout if I happen to have 6+HCP, I will 100% bid 2♥ if I have 5card and 4HCP, I will 100% bid 1NT if I have 7-8 HCP with some stoppers. This seems to be the typical case where people forget that they have a partner that is not stupid :). You're making a series of assumptions that run a very serious risk of catching partner on a different wavelength. It's not a case of partner being stupid or not, it's just that he may be viewing the situation in a different way. You have to cater for that, otherwise you'll be just another unlucky expert :) So, unless you are 100% sure that you agreed with pard this particular double is for penalties, you'd be better off going for a contract of 1NT (or 2 or 3), which should have a good play for, rather than embarking on the nebulous enterprise of defending 1S doubled. Even if the double is for penalties, it's not a certainty you'll get a good score from it. There are just too many "ifs" for me to pass. That's at least my opinion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 i think the x is penalty, and i think i'll bid 3nt... reason is, i think our game will be worth more than the set.. could be wrong, of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Pass may not be a bad idea, but not for the reasons anyone is stating. RHO didn't pull to 2D so he has tolerance for spades. We have 3, LHO has 4 and maybe 5. What's that leave pard with? 2 - 3 is my guess. Having said that, what pard should have is at least 17. The shape that seems most likely is 3325. I have 7. A club tap against 1S looks pretty juicy against their 4-3 fit. We don't have a great fit, but we have at least 60% of the deck. I forgot to check the vul here, but at green I'm passing and at adverse I'm probably shooting 3N counting on enough tricks. At equal I don't know what I'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Oops thought I was 3433 not 2434. Put me down for 2N nv and 3N vul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 As I mentioned earlier, partner should have 15 or more with 4324 or 4315 shape. The problem with the pass is my diamond holding is not sufficient to deter a low level spade contract, and the trouble with bidding NT is my diamond holding is not that good. RHOs pass is probably based on equal tolerance, so 3433 shape is quite likely. At the 1-level there seems to be LAW protection for them, so I am inclined to bid a simple 2C. I don't visualize a game our way unless partner can move again and my diamond King is not so valuable that I wish to express any serious interest in 3N - no, this 2C bid followed by 2N if they compete further should really describe this hand quite well I would think. Winston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omeroj Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 It is very nice:)I see 10 votes for pass:))))The is imp, not MP:)We could make 3 nt and too if we don't make it, opp could make 1♠xThe bridge is infinite :D :angry: Omero :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 This is another hand where if you have an agreement with partner, you should stick to it. If you really believe double is penalties, you have to leave it in. Any argument about "it can't be right to defend at the 1-level" is not valid because partner is well aware that they are at the 1-level. We have no unexpected distribution, and we have the upper end of the high cards we have promised. If partner thinks it is right to defend at the 1-level then there is absolutely nothing in our hand to suggest we over-rule him. If on the other hand you think double is just "high cards" then of course you bid, either 2NT or 3NT. p.s. I've only seen (effectively) this auction twice. Once we took 1100, the other time they were vul and we took 200 against a partial at MPs. The last time it came up at the 2-level I bid 3NT and went off, rather than taking our nice safe 300, which would have been 500 had 400 been available in 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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