BPO-004B

[inquiry]

Voting should be over by now.. time to discuss...

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&s=sk86hj82dqj8743cj]133|100|Scoring: IMP

BPO-004B

 

West   North   East  South

Pass     2♣ Pass 2♦

PASS    2♠   Pass    ?

[/hv]

[helene_t]

I voted 3♦ based on the idea that a diamond slam could be better than a spades slam. Also, if partner rebids 3♥ I can bid 3♠ and he has some idea about what I have.

 

Also, I prefer to have 4-card support for 3♠. And certainly for a 4♣ splinter.

 

It's not ideal, I'm not sure what to do if partner bids 3♠ or 3NT. 2NT is an alternative. But then again, I don't know what to do over 3♠. Here in the Netherlands you're allowed to cue a singleton but as I understand it, Americans don't do that.

[badderzboy]

My thoughts were 3♦ or 4♣ (Splinter) but can 2♠ be a 4 card suit...

 

So I'll show a long ♦ suit with 3♦ but not good enough to show initially and with a little extra and keep the auction going

 

Now the next question is what would 4♣ over 3♠ rebid mean?

 

Steve

[hrothgar]

BP0-004B: 3D

 

Another interesting hand made MUCH more difficult by the lack of

definition regarding system. My intention is to advance with a

forcing 3D rebid and then show Spade support. I believe that this

should show this hand type. My primary concern is that partner might

expect a stronger Diamond suit (KQT942 or some such). However,

holding that and the Hxx in Spades I would have made an immediate 3D

positive over the strong 2C opening.

[cherdano]

I am really curious how the panel (I mean those who belong there, not me) will bid here. I thought the bid was clear but 2♣ auctions are so rare that I cannot claim to have much experience at all with this.

 

Arend

[P_Marlowe]

4C, splinter.

 

I have nothing else worthwile to tell.

 

Marlowe

[whereagles]

This is another hand where I'd like to know the system I'm playing ;)...

 

Would 3♠ now be forcing? Is it stronger or weaker than 4♠?

What's the max that a 2♣-2♦ response can have?

Couldn't I have bid 2♣-3♦ the first round?

 

Anyway.. since I don't know what I'm playing, I'm just going to bid what I have: support for pard's suit. So.. 3♠ :lol:

[cherdano]

BBO advanced does specify 2♥ as immediate double negative. If we assume standard style of 2♣, then 2♦ must induce a game force.

 

Arend

[whereagles]

Ahh.. ok. Thx. I might try 4♠ then. Nothing else is worth mentioning, except perhaps the club singleton. But I think I lack the playing strenght to announce it.

[DrTodd13]

I thought I was going to be a lone dissenter but I did hear one voice for 4♠. This appears to be a distributional hand and in such queens and jacks should be highly devalued. I've already forced to game by not bidding 2♥ immediately and from my point of view, this hand isn't much better than a minimum 2♦ call. Yes, I would say that under the principle of fast arrival that 3♠ would be stronger than 4♠. So, I consider this hand so weak that I'll bid 4♠.

 

Was this question designed to see whether 3♠ is not an indicator of strength since we have serious 3N available after the 3♠ bid? In the context of serious 3N, what does it mean to bypass even the possibility of using it?

[han]

3S, better than 4S. Like to have a fourth trump for 4C, 3D will confuse partner.

[HeartA]

4C, splinter.

 

I have nothing else worthwile to tell.

 

Marlowe

same here.

[pclayton]

4C for me too. Could pard have a 4 card spade suit? Yes, I suppose, once in a blue moon with a monster 4414 or 4315. Hands like this, unless they are about a 23 count or higher, are better off opened 1C.

 

I guess I'm OK with 3D but my biggest fear is that when I retreat back to spades, it sounds like a forced preference.

[Double !]

Clear cut 3 spade bid IMO.

Establish the fit first. Does NOT deny other values, is stronger than 4S which implies weakish hand, and doesn't preclude the potential of showing other features next. A splinter 4C bid should probably show a 4th spade and closer to 4441 than 6421. The problem with rebidding 3D, IMO, is that P might make assume control cards in diamonds since you elected to make this the first bit of information to share with partner: will P will play you for Kxx with an outside stiff, and no A or K in diamonds when you then raise spades secondarily and also try to show the club stiff? Gets kinda complicated.

[mike777]

3S, better than 4S. Like to have a fourth trump for 4C, 3D will confuse partner.

ditto

[luke warm]

3♦ because it shows my cards.. we're game force anyway and i will show spades if i need to

[bearmum]

I voted for 3♦ rather than 3♠ although a good case could be made for the 3♠ bid.

[flytoox]

Ahh.. ok. Thx. I might try 4♠ then. Nothing else is worth mentioning, except perhaps the club singleton. But I think I lack the playing strenght to announce it.

At least you have a singleton and good trump support.

 

4S shows nothing but 3 small spades. You have much more than that.

[flytoox]

I thought I was going to be a lone dissenter but I did hear one voice for 4♠. This appears to be a distributional hand and in such queens and jacks should be highly devalued. I've already forced to game by not bidding 2♥ immediately and from my point of view, this hand isn't much better than a minimum 2♦ call. Yes, I would say that under the principle of fast arrival that 3♠ would be stronger than 4♠. So, I consider this hand so weak that I'll bid 4♠.

 

Was this question designed to see whether 3♠ is not an indicator of strength since we have serious 3N available after the 3♠ bid? In the context of serious 3N, what does it mean to bypass even the possibility of using it?

Perhaps there is a reason for bidding 4S alone:)

 

In my opinion, 4S is really a horrible horrible bid. You have good trump support, a good side diamond suit, a single club. There are so much to tell pd and I think I need a few bids to fulfill this job. But you think 4S can do this job?

 

 

I think you need to reconsider it:)

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

Hongjun

[Rebound]

For this hand I will say only that I believe 3♠ to be the call since it sets the trump suit asap.

[Walddk]

For this hand I will say only that I believe 3♠ to be the call since it sets the trump suit asap.

Good thinking. If 3♦ gets a vote among the panelists I would be very surprised. It must be between 3♠ and 4♣ (splinter). It's too good for a splinter in my methods, because it denies any keycard.

 

Roland

[Finch]

As the splinter takes up space, I prefer it to be a very specific hand.

 

I think it should show 4 trumps to allow partner to count tricks. If you think that is too rare, than agree it shows exactly 3 trumps, but don't play it to show either 3 or 4.

 

I don't usually play this system (2D semi-positive), so in my normal style I play that a splinter shows exactly one useful card (or a hand so good it will bid on).

 

As we have already shown some values with the 2D bid, I agree with Roland that it makes sense to have the splinter denying a key card.

[inquiry]

This hand seemed ripe for discussion. We all know that we are going to game, at least. The question is do we raise spades directly via 3S or 4C splinter (or possible 4S), or do we show diamond as if partner fits diamonds, we bring a possible 6D/7D contract into play something you can’t do if you raise spades immediately. A side question, is after 2D, would a 3S raise be forcing (I play yes). IF not, of course, a direct 3S raise is out of the question. Let’s see what the panel had to say. We will start first with the elightened minority who choose (correctly) to forgo the direct raise and bid diamonds first.

 

ng “3♦. Good problem. I will have the opportunity for delayed spade support. Anyway, I will go for slam. If partner supports diamonds, grand is possible. Alternatives: 3S (slamish) or 4C (splinter). If I bid 3S, we will play in spades and would miss 7D if North has AK of diamonds and missing spade Queen, or North has something: AQJxx, Ax, AK, Axxx (7N and 7D are laydown). 4C splinter needs 4 card support. “

 

Luis 3♦, I'm going to bid 3♠ or 4♠ next. I like to show the diamond suit before bidding spades, pd needs as much information as I can give him to take good decisions in this hand. There's no reason not to bid a good 6 card diamond suit. The fact that I didn't bid 3♦ directly over 2♣ will also provide great information to pd. This hand can be a grand slam.” Luis's point about not bidding 3♦ immediately is worth noting.

 

Dinos1 “3D. Show good suit before giving a support so strong partner will have better image of our hand (and possible source of tricks. Besides 6D can be a better contract (partner having dKxx) or even 7D (if he has stiff dAK) isn't out of question.”

 

The remainder of the panel choose a direct spade raise of some flavor. Being 7-3 in favor of spade raise, I had to down grade my choice of 3♦ in the scoring.

 

Half of those choosing the splinter had a sneaky admiration for the 3♦ bid, they just coulldn’t come to bid it. FLUFFY ”4♣, we cannot show both ♦s and singleton ♣, the suit quality makes the difference, if it was just KJxxxx I would go with 3♦, but not without control.” Fred “4♣ I am almost tempted to bid my diamonds (since our fit in that suit will often determine where we belong), but if I do so then I may not be able to express my spade support without getting us too high. I prefer to try to get my hand off my chest anyways. Perhaps it is my singleton club and not my long diamond suit that partner needs to hear about...” Ritong carried the admiration for diamonds one step further, he plans on making the splinter and THEN bid diamond… saying, “4♣ intending to follow with 5♦. Only Rich reisig chose the splinter without mentioning diamonds, instead he thinks, “4C (But 3S might work better).

 

The 3♠ bidders had no concern about missing game, but they didn’t like making a splinter with only three card trump support. Walddk 3S . Goodish hand, a keycard and a singleton. Too good for a 4C splinter which in my methods would show the same hand without SK. If opener is interested in my club control, he can bid a serious 3NT. And our two guest panelist agreed with Roland’s choice of a bid. Poky ”3S With the fourth trump I would bid the 4C splinter. This way, I can bid only 3S. It is very wrong to bid a second suit (3D) when holding such a genuine spade support. cherdano "3♠. With Kxx support and a singleton, I see no alternative to showing this. If I bid 3♦ now and support later, partner may take this as a preference with ♠xx. (If we bid naturally after 3♠, I may still be able to show my 6-card suit.)

 

With four votes, 4C gets the 100, getting 3 votes each, 3S gets the nod and 80 points as the majority choose a direct raise, and the 3D gets downgraded with 3 votes and a score of 60. (I hope the reader tries to follow the rationale for each bid and let the winning "logic" rather than the highest score tell them what is REALLY the correct bid. To keep it simple, I will tell you.. it is 3♦. lol :-) )

 

Fred       4♣

Luis        3♦

Walddk    3♠

Fluffy      4♣

cherdano 3♠

reisig       4♣

ritong      4♣

ng           3♦

Dinos1       3♦

Poky           3♠

[whereagles]

I'm not sure the point of not having bid a direct 3♦ is sound. I wouldn't like to make such a space-consuming bid in an very cramped situation unless I was REALLY interested in diamonds. With

 

♠ Kxx

♥ Qxx

♦ KQxxxx

♣ x

 

I would still prefer to bid 2♦ and later support pard's major instead of eating away bidding space with 3♦.

 

But ok, that's just my way of thinking.

[mike777]

I'm not sure the point of not having bid a direct 3♦ is sound. I wouldn't like to make such a space-consuming bid in an very cramped situation unless I was REALLY interested in diamonds. With

 

♠ Kxx

♥ Qxx

♦ KQxxxx

♣ x

 

I would still prefer to bid 2♦ and later support pard's major instead of eating away bidding space with 3♦.

 

But ok, that's just my way of thinking.

I would be happy to bid 3d and consume space with that example hand.