pigpenz Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 what would you bid in response to partners 1♦ opening?? [hv=d=n&v=b&s=sq9h1086dca10876432]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv] lets say you are playing 2/1 with strong jump shifts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 at the table i temporized with one heart, feeling that hand could play equally well on a 3-3 fit or 4-3 fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 3♣, natural and invitational. No real reason to mastermind this hand, best to bid my eight card suit. 3NT is excellent opposite a hand like: KxxKxxxAxxxKx Bidding 3♣ now will encourage partner to try 3NT with a partial fit for clubs and some stoppers, and will get us to our best partial when we don't have a game. Sometimes simplest is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 all depends on what your playing, what 3 clubs would be.1.pre emptive2.invitational3.strong jump shift maybe what if i edit and say 3 clubs is strong jump shift, then you have more a problem with hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpenz Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 old style Walsh 2/1 would allow to temporizing with hands when auction went1d 1h2h 3c showed 3 card heart suit and long clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 old style Walsh 2/1 would allow to temporizing with hands when auction went1d 1h2h 3c showed 3 card heart suit and long clubs NO this is not old walsh style..good grief.I bid 1nt, someone has to bid again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Boring 1NT for me too, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 i'm bidding 1NT. if we end up in a NT contract, i certainly want it played from my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2♦ rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 old style Walsh 2/1 would allow to temporizing with hands when auction went1d 1h2h 3c showed 3 card heart suit and long clubs I don't know from where you got this, but this is incorrect. It is a game try in H. I bid 1NT, what else? 2C overstates the hand and 1H is crazy and can not infrequently lead to playing in a 3-3 fit. Quote Whereagles:Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2D rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ And what pray tell do you do over a 3D rebid or a reverse by opener when you are now in a GF situation as you have shown 10+ points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 agree with others (for 1st time today)the least lie and most flexible bid would seem to be 1NT The problem with bidding and rebidding and rebidding clubs is that your hand might not provide any other entries, P would play you for better club honors or more potential club tricks in NT, and 3NT would be hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I really don't like this system. Either play 1D - 2C as almost gf or play 1D - 3C as inv.. I'm bidding 1H praying that I can make a Walsh jump of 3C over 1S or 1N. I hate 1N with a 2308 shape but I dislike 2C even more. Maybe the best call over 1D playing these methods is a direct 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Quote Whereagles:Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2D rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ And what pray tell do you do over a 3D rebid or a reverse by opener when you are now in a GF situation as you have shown 10+ points? Who cares about points on a 6-loser hand? I guess next you're going to say the hand is "weak"...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Quote Whereagles:Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2D rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ And what pray tell do you do over a 3D rebid or a reverse by opener when you are now in a GF situation as you have shown 10+ points? Who cares about points on a 6-loser hand? I guess next you're going to say the hand is "weak"...? have no idea but please note LTC only works when there is a fit...not on an unknown hand...but most if not all count ltc on nonfit hands.,,Repeat ...most if not all count ltc on nonfit auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyot Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I play 2/1 responses as either GF or (if immediately repeated) a good 6card suit... (and 8th ace equals a good 6card.... so I would bid 2♣ and then 3♣ on any rebid... and if he bids 3NT then, I'll have close my eyes and pray B) I would strongly advocate against 1NT bid for one reason: P with AKJxxx in diamonds might hope to make 5 tricks in that suit with one loss of tempo, expecting a small doubleton in my hand. Since he has higher suit than I have, he might not be willing to accept my run from 3NT (likely bid if he has something like 3-3-6-1) to 4-5c and would bid diamonds... If I cannot bid 2/1 club as above, then I would rather pass. After all, with just 6 HCP, there is a good chance that my LHO will reopen the bidding either with a major 4card or a double (hoping for his partner to have a trapping pass). I could then reenter the bidding aggresively with my clubs - and partner would be able to deduce what hand I have. I don't like pass too much, but I like 1NT even less. Unless I find partner with a doubleton club (not very likely), 3NT may fail even against quite strong hands. And if I pass and p is strong (say 16+), chances still are good that the reopen will come - roughly 50% = LHO can have weak NT, one long major or a takeout (if diamonds are 3-6-4-0 or 3-5-5-0)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 have no idea but please note LTC only works when there is a fit...not on an unknown hand...but most if not all count ltc on nonfit hands.,,Repeat ...most if not all count ltc on nonfit auctions. Forget about books... Look at the hand: it has 6 losers, LTC or not. On the worst-case-scenario I'll lose 2 clubs and 5 in the majors: 7 losers. Usually it will have 6 losers, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 1 NT, wtp ? Sorry, I hate "wtp", but 1 NT is the System bid, if you do not like the System bid, change it, but do not tryto invent something clever on the fly. With kind regardsMaarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I agree with the previous post. And don't play strong jump shifts, especially 1♦ - 3♣ is hugely self-preempting where 2♣ is forcing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Quote Whereagles:Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2D rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ And what pray tell do you do over a 3D rebid or a reverse by opener when you are now in a GF situation as you have shown 10+ points? Who cares about points on a 6-loser hand? I guess next you're going to say the hand is "weak"...? We need great caution to use LTC to evaluate minors- based hands: often such hands end up looking for NT contracts, where LTC is badly flawed (differently from suit contracts, where it usually works quite well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Really don't know why I bother, but.... ♠ Q9 ♥ 1086 D ♣ A10876432 AxxAxxAKJxxxx How many tricks are you going to make Whereagles, and your partner expects to be in game opposite a 2/1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Well hoggie, I also dunno why I bother.. lol. With Axx..........QxAxx..........TxxAKJxxxx....voidvoid..........ATxxxxxx 5♣ probably doesn't make, yes. But that's not nearly the worst hand pard can have. Give him something like Axx..........QxAxx..........TxxAKJxxx.....voidx..............ATxxxxxx and it's a decent game.. 2-2 club break with some extra chances if the diamond queen is third and diam/spade squeeze. Certainly I'd like to be in it. In any case how are you planning to catch up after having bid 1♦-1NT? By shooting 5♣ the next round? And what if pard, who could very well be holding a balanced 12-14, actually passes 1NT and a cold game is missed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 1NT, could bid 1♥ some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Quote Whereagles:Pard probably has a bunch of diams. I'm starting with 2♣. Over the expected 2D rebid, I'll probably try 3♣ And what pray tell do you do over a 3D rebid or a reverse by opener when you are now in a GF situation as you have shown 10+ points? Who cares about points on a 6-loser hand? I guess next you're going to say the hand is "weak"...? have no idea but please note LTC only works when there is a fit...not on an unknown hand...but most if not all count ltc on nonfit hands.,,Repeat ...most if not all count ltc on nonfit auctions. When you have an 8-card suit, you have a fit opposite a void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 I evaluate this as an 8 loser hand, adjusting the LTC as if I have a douleton in partner's suit--this allows for wastage in the short suit. This puts our partnership at the 9 trick level and I curse being unable to bid 3♣ invitational. Perhaps 1NT is the best of a bad lot, but I have some sympathy for 5♣ direct, it may make if partner is weak in diamonds or has some extras, or may be a good save if partner has a minimum opening. It also shows the hand type: lots of playing strength, poor high cards. Swap the red suits in both hands and 1NT forcing over 1♥ is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 2♣, then 3♣, and if necessary, 4♣. Life isn't perfect. I don't mind bidding three card suits, but Ten high? Sadly for me, 3♣ immediatley shows diamond support. Also, 4♣ doesn't show clubs for me either.. so it is go slow. If partner shows a club fit with 2♠ or 3♣ raise, I might actually get excited about this hand (especially after 2♠.... (I use artificial sequence after 1D-2C, based on Kokish method). But I suspect I will end up in 4♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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