Walddk Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why do I feel so lonely? :-) Because you have been listening too much to The Beatles: "I'm a Loser" :-) Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Don't worry. I have the feeling at table your pass would have been vindicated :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wow what a great thread! I have been enlightened by Frances and Helene on this one. Double simply has to be the 18-19 (I'd include the good 17 too) with 2-3 trump. I think its too restrictive for it to be exactly 3. If you hold AKJx Axx xx KQJx you are flat out stuck for a call over 3D. So, if double isn't maximal, what does the 3H raise show? It can't be a competitive minny with 4 pieces like: Kxx AJTx xx Kxxx. Otherwise the range for 3H becomes too wide. I like Frances' "2 1/2" idea, where the raise shows a little more than a minimum. Add a black Q to my last hand if you want a good example. And a 4H call shows about a "3 1/2" heart bid. Ax AQxx xx KQJxx, lastly saving a 4D Q for the real raise to 4H. So with this understanding we have a clear 4H call. So where are those 4C bidders that came out so adamantly at the beginning of this discussion? :o You may climb out from under your rock now, all is forgiven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why do I feel so lonely? :-) Because you have been listening too much to The Beatles: "I'm a Loser" :-) Roland I don't remember a song by The Beatles called that. There's a song by Beck, "Loser". That's a really good song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why do I feel so lonely? :-) Because you have been listening too much to The Beatles: "I'm a Loser" :-) Roland I don't remember a song by The Beatles called that. There's a song by Beck, "Loser". That's a really good song. In that case your memory doesn't serve you correctly. It was even written by Lennon/McCartney. Here is a link: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/b/beatleslyr...oserlyrics.html Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Why do I feel so lonely? :-) Because you have been listening too much to The Beatles: "I'm a Loser" :-) Roland I don't remember a song by The Beatles called that. There's a song by Beck, "Loser". That's a really good song. Lennon/McCartneyI'm a loserI'm a loserAnd I'm not what I appear to be Of all the love I have won or have lostthere is one love I should never have crossedShe was a girl in a million, my friendI should have known she would win in the end I'm a loserAnd I lost someone who's near to meI'm a loserAnd I'm not what I appear to be Although I laugh and I act like a clownBeneath this mask I am wearing a frownMy tears are falling like rain from the skyIs it for her or myself that I cry I'm a loserAnd I lost someone who's near to meI'm a loserAnd I'm not what I appear to be What have I done to deserve such a fateI realize I have left it too lateAnd so it's true, pride comes before a fallI'm telling you so that you won't lose all I'm a loserAnd I lost someone who's near to meI'm a loserAnd I'm not what I appear to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I stand corrected! :o I guess I'm not as old as I sometimes think I am. :) Ok, time to add up contestant's answers for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Laugh. And to think that I should *know* the correct answer then on the hand. At least I was consistent. So much for the memory. Getting senile in my old age. So, what WAS partner's hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Really? I feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Really? I feel better. Wow, not close to what Lawrence guidelines were I see. But closer to what I was afraid of. Lawrence says 3H may be around:XXX=AJX=AX=KQ9XX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥... I guess that depends on partnership philosophy which is indeed a form of agreement. Maybe for this player dbl was INV or better with support and 3♥ just competitive, in such a scenario the option of letting them play 3♦ is not very appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Did he not have any green cards in his bidding box? 3♥ is just plain wrong! Walddk: Opener could have passed if he is 3433 and weak. If I can't reopen, we haven't missed anything. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. As I noted earlier, I am skeptical whether such a hand should rebid 3♥... I guess that depends on partnership philosophy which is indeed a form of agreement. Maybe for this player dbl was INV or better with support and 3♥ just competitive, in such a scenario the option of letting them play 3♦ is not very appealing. Assuming that you are playing "Standard", its hard to imagine that opener could have a worse hand than a 3=4=3=3 11 count. Equally significant, advancer could be sitting on a fairly weak hand with 4 hearts. I'm known as a fairly aggressive bidder. However, I prefer to be aggressive when my bids place some pressure on the opponents. Styles that force a 3H advance on balanced crap seem unsound. They might work at times. I suspect that they will be particularly effective when the opponents haven't been warned about such idiocy and aren't able to take appropriate counter-measures. For example, some players at MIT could be trusted to balance on virtually every hand. They would NEVER sell out to a 2H contract. Strangely enough, they started changing their style after the competitors grew wise and started psyching non forcing 2H raises with game forcing balanced hands or passing 2H raises with Battleships. This bidding style even had a name "BOTP" - the Binkly Oriented Trap Pass.... In a similar fashion, pairs who understand that the 3H advance could be made on a 4333 11 countg are going to start making "preemptive" 3D raises on some pretty strong hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Really? I feel better. Trouble is 4H makes: :) J8xx......ATxKTxxx...AxxxK..........xxxATx.......K9x Hearts and spades break :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 A 3433 11 count. Really? I feel better. Trouble is 4H makes: :) J8xx......ATxKTxxx...AxxxK..........xxxATx.......K9x Hearts and spades break :lol: Problem was, hearts were 4-1 and 4♥ is off one. I have to admit that I was the 3♥ bidder. We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦. I agree with luis to double with value and bid 3♥ as values. Of course, playing with Matt and we had no specific competitive agreements. I just winged it As usual, I tend to agree wtih Luis, seems he bids "right" at least by way of thinking. But then again, if hearts had broken... 3♥ would not have been a happy result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦. Don't you think we will get to 3♥ if you pass? Responder will re-open with double, and then you can bid 3♥. Double does not show a good heart raise as I play it, a free 3♥ does. Double shows spades, and extras. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Ahhh... the cuplrit ben confesses his hideous crime :lol: "Your honor, the prossecution asks for a split score: the defendant shalt be awarded 4H -1, and his innocent pard 3H just made." :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think the most common treatment is that opener's 3♥ does not promise extras. But maybe this is different in different cultures. Since if 3♥ does not promise extra's I would have expected more panelist voting for "pass". Maybe a topic for a poll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Contestant's votes:4♥ 23 4♣ 3 pass 2 3♠ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Problem was, hearts were 4-1 and 4♥ is off one. I have to admit that I was the 3♥ bidder. We were not vul, we can make 3♥, they can make 3♦.Well, if the hearts were 4-1, then there were 14 hearts dealt on this hand. Throw the hand out. How can anyone have a chance when one of the opps has an extra trump up his/her sleeve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 I didn't mind Ben's bid and can see the philosophy behind it. Unfortunately I wasn't on the same page. No big deal. Will just have to play more with him to learn what his style is; well, if he puts up with me long enough that is. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatrix45 Posted July 18, 2005 Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 :unsure: 4♥ WTP. Slam seems out of reach, and my hand is worth 11 points for hearts. Partner may have stretched with 3♥ (either in overall strength or with three card support), but so what? I got both covered. If it goes down, well I have been down before once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.