4th suit forcing on 1 level?

[plaur]

I play

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ as natural

and

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♠ as 4th suit forcing

 

When my pickup partners play the reverse we have some funny auctions :-)

 

What is most *commonly* played on BBO would you think?

[mike777]

I play

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ as natural

and

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♠ as 4th suit forcing

 

When my pickup partners play the reverse we have some funny auctions :-)

 

What is most *commonly* played on BBO would you think?

If you play Walsh style then 1c=1d=1h=1s natural and game force. 1c=1s=less than game strength.

 

If you play XYZ or some form of 2 way checkback then no need to jump to 2s.

1c=1d=1h=2c=often invite

1c=1d=1h=2d=game force.

[han]

I like to play XYZ too, so 1X-1Y-1Z-2C with all invitational hands and 1X-1Y-1Z-2D is artificial gameforce. Hence I can play 1C-1D-1H-1S as non-forcing and natural, and 1C-1D-1H-2S as natural (at least 4-5 in the pointed suits) and GF.

[Fluffy]

I play walsh, and I play 1♠ as 4sf, the reason is declarer is very unlikelly tohold 4♠, and you cannot have 4♠ unless you have GF values, so there is no need to find the fit below the 3 level.

 

Anyway partner will raise 1♠ to 2 whenever he has 4 cards.

[P_Marlowe]

I play

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 1♠ as natural

and

1♣ - 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♠ as 4th suit forcing

 

When my pickup partners play the reverse we have some funny auctions :-)

 

What is most *commonly* played on BBO would you think?

Hi,

 

no idea.

 

But playing with a pickup partner I would never

jump to 2S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

I've no idea what is more common on BBO. But playing Walsh, 1♠ as natural does not make much sense since opener can have four spades only when specifically 4414 or 4405, and responder isn't too likely to have four spades either. I think it makes more sense to play 1♠ as a waiting bid. Then you can get a notrump contract in opener's hand when that is right.

 

If you don't play Walsh, the auction

1♣-1♦

1♥

is misty from both sides, so you need bidding space to clarify. So 2♠ as FSF is not practical. Play 1♠ as FSF. This means that you will often have to bid spades before diamonds, even if not playing Walsh. Or you must be willing to loose the spades fit on some partscore hands.

 

In Dutch Doubleton, 2♠ is FSF. This is because 1♦ can also be a negative relay, so 1♠ after 1♦ is 0-6 HCPs with (usually) five spades.

[coyot]

If you play Walsh XYNT, 1♥ denies balanced hand. I am used to play ♠ as universal: Opener with spade 4card will raise and I will either bid 3NT or 4♠ depending on what I have. Opener without spade 4card will bid 1NT with 3card and stopper or doubleton with two stoppers, otherwise he bids clubs again.

 

1♣-1♦-1♥-2♠ would therefore be splinter :-) (showing 1453 distribution and GF values).

 

With a pickup partner on BBO, I would most likely treat jump to 2♠ as FSF and show stopper or halfstopper (3♠) (as splinters without agreement are usually costly :ph34r:)

and would treat 1♠ as possibly natural (same bidding as above).

[Free]

I play 1♠ as 2-way: opener should support with a 4 card, but doesn't REALLY need a stopper for 1NT (responder can ask again with 2♠). Without a stopper and a better rebid, opener shouldn't bid 1NT (like with a 3-4-2-4 he doesn't have a clear rebid, but with 2-4-3-4 he can bid 2♦).

 

An immediate 2♠ shows reverse, GF natural and 5+♦ as well.

[Flame]

I play 1♠ as natural but my partner doesnt know it yet. :ph34r:

[Double !]

I play 1♠ as natural but my partner doesnt know it yet. B)

This is definitely the best answer in the thread...

We won't tell your P if you don't. and just deny everything and anything if backed into a corner.

the problem is, if it could be less than 4 spades, isn't this alertable at 1-level?

[1eyedjack]

I've no idea what is more common on BBO. But playing Walsh, 1♠ as natural does not make much sense since opener can have four spades only when specifically 4414 or 4405, and responder isn't too likely to have four spades either.

I think the reasoning of natural style bidders who play not many conventions but DO play 4th suit forcing, is that while opener is unlikely to have 4-4 Spade fit on the auction he is not THAT unlikely that you should be content to lose the fit, and the loss of the fit is likely to occur if you have the fit and do not play 1S as natural here.

If responder has a true 4th-suit-F hand type then he can afford to bid 2S to show that hand type. If he has a natural Spade suit then he cannot. This does not apply to those who would respond 1S in preference to (potentially longer) Diamonds, ie Walsh style, but the questionner stipulated pickup partnerships, and in the UK, having agreed to play 4SF but NOT agreed on Walsh, the normal treatment would be 1S = natural (and one bid force).

[helene_t]

You can also play a sort of Kaplan Inversion here:

1♠: relay, sorta FSF but does not promise extra's.

1NT: 4 spades, non-forcing

 

I play this in one partnership allthough the meaning of the sequence is different since 1♦ showed four hearts and 1♥ showed 3-card support.

 

It's not so difficult to remember since spades and notrumps are reversed in many other sequences as well B)