Bridgemates

[jillybean]

As you likely know, I've just started dabbling with running games.

We are using bridgemates and ACBLScore.

 

There are no masterpoints awarded so we are free to use any method to collect and publish results.

What are my options?

[jillybean]

Wrong question ? :huh:

[blackshoe]

Not sure but I think acbl live and the common game are two. There are probably others.

[pescetom]

Wrong question ? :huh:

 

Sounds eminently sensible to me.

Unfortunately I am not ACBL and have only had Bridgemates when working for WBF, so cannot help.

[jillybean]

Sounds eminently sensible to me.

Unfortunately I am not ACBL and have only had Bridgemates when working for WBF, so cannot help.

I think ACBL is a bit of a red herring.

 

We are not a sanctioned game, we do not award master points, we do not need to report results to the ACBL.

 

This is all completely new to me but from what I understand so far is that from the Bridgemates, we take a file containing the player names (txt file) and a GAMEFILE (BWS) containing the game data.

 

What I am hoping to find out is how others are using this data? Do you have anything we could use to deliver game results and analysis tools to our players.

[pescetom]

I think ACBL is a bit of a red herring.

 

We are not a sanctioned game, we do not award master points, we do not need to report results to the ACBL.

 

This is all completely new to me but from what I understand so far is that from the Bridgemates, we take a file containing the player names (txt file) and a GAMEFILE (BWS) containing the game data.

 

What I am hoping to find out is how others are using this data? Do you have anything we could use to deliver game results and analysis tools to our players.

Here in Italy you could do this "free" using the FIGB program, or for $100 per year using the Bridgest program (both integrate Bridgemates and also offer a decent phone based alternative for no extra cost).

The FIGB program offers a complete (although graphically ugly) HMTL based delivery of game results and analysis.

Bridgest is easier to use and more readable, but not so complete in terms of delivery.

I would imagine that Bridgemate themselves offer a solution for some fee.

UK TDs may have an answer more useful to you, as they are oriented towards English language programs producing an XML in USEBIO format (which is a great idea, although the main site to visualise it requires payment and is a bit clunky and other RAs or WBF do not yet seem to recognize the importance of such a standard).

[sanst]

I would imagine that Bridgemate themselves offer a solution for some fee.

Yes and no. Yes, there’s the Bridge-It software, which is available for 295 euro plus extra costs for support and updates, no, the program is not available in North America. Actually, it seems to be only available in the low countries, probably because the only language it speaks is Dutch.

[pescetom]

I saw later that there is a list of compatible scoring programs on the Bridgemate website:

 

https://www.bridgemate.com/product/scoring-programs/list-of-scoring-programs-supporting-bridgemate/

[jillybean]

Thanks!

[mycroft]

Well, I didn't answer because I was confused.

 

If you need a scoring program, I think ACBLscor is available even for non-sanctioned clubs; as discussed, other scoring programs are available (but have their (NBO's) biases). You say you're using ACBLscor, so I guess this is dealt with.

 

If you need to display scores after the game, the old-fashioned way is "print 'em, post 'em on your club board". I've noticed this year because of the big TV we're using to show the clock, I can just display it there and frequently don't need to print it any more.

 

If you need to display scores online, CG works - and has other advantages. Now they might not *be* advantages, when you have to explain why her 63% game is only a 54% on CG... Many clubs (including my México one) use BridgeWebs - their default structure is really quite well thought out (and ugly. It seems in this century you either get useful information or pretty UI, never both) and it seems easy to post to. I have had clubs using Pianola before - that is a friendlier UI, but much more focused on the results and analysis rather than club info. If you have anyone with web knowledge, the old-fashioned method of putting text (your printout, saved as a file) behind a link and changing it every week Just Works - sure it feels like going back to the '90s, but really, what's wrong with that?

 

Really, it depends on what your club wants for "publishing results".

[pescetom]

One thing the FIGB has always done well is online publishing of tournament results, so our players are a bit spoiled there. Although as mycroft says you either get ugly but complete (the classic website) or neat but incomplete (the dumbed down mobile version). Unfortunately they have not yet extended it to display online play (although it will accept and display an online tournament except the play).

 

In my club, even the most minor of our local tournaments merits at least an HTML page with results, curriculum, leads and analysis of boards. Our players get this on their phone within minutes of the finish (it gets sent to a WhatsApp group by the server, as well as placed on our club site where you can click on any past tournament).

[jillybean]

Well, I didn't answer because I was confused.

 

If you need a scoring program, I think ACBLscor is available even for non-sanctioned clubs; as discussed, other scoring programs are available (but have their (NBO's) biases). You say you're using ACBLscor, so I guess this is dealt with.

 

If you need to display scores after the game, the old-fashioned way is "print 'em, post 'em on your club board". I've noticed this year because of the big TV we're using to show the clock, I can just display it there and frequently don't need to print it any more.

 

If you need to display scores online, CG works - and has other advantages. Now they might not *be* advantages, when you have to explain why her 63% game is only a 54% on CG... Many clubs (including my México one) use BridgeWebs - their default structure is really quite well thought out (and ugly. It seems in this century you either get useful information or pretty UI, never both) and it seems easy to post to. I have had clubs using Pianola before - that is a friendlier UI, but much more focused on the results and analysis rather than club info. If you have anyone with web knowledge, the old-fashioned method of putting text (your printout, saved as a file) behind a link and changing it every week Just Works - sure it feels like going back to the '90s, but really, what's wrong with that?

 

Really, it depends on what your club wants for "publishing results".

ACBLscor would be great, if we could run it on anything but an old DOS PC :)

[mycroft]

ACBLScor for windows - which is still the DOS program in a very hinky Windows shell - works on newer Windows computers.

[jillybean]

ACBLScor for windows - which is still the DOS program in a very hinky Windows shell - works on newer Windows computers.

 

Thanks, I'm not sure I am comfortable going for a questionable solution , at least not yet.

[hakan_str]

You could always check out Magic Contest which is (and I quote from their website)

 

"....the national scoring program in Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Austria, and Finland is slowly moving in that direction. In France, all 29 federation comités (districts) as well as the national federation use Magic Contest.

 

Thanks to the cooperation with Bridgemate resellers, some 40 clubs Spain and some 35 clubs in Turkey use Magic Contest, as well as numerous clubs all over the world."

 

I don't have any affiliation with neither the company nor its owner other than being a very happy player for many years.

[mycroft]

Thanks, I'm not sure I am comfortable going for a questionable solution , at least not yet.

Ah, I caused you to misunderstand. Apologies.

 

This is *the version* of ACBLscor that everybody has been using since Windows 7 burned DOS. 20 years of tournaments and club games have run with ACBLScorW. In fact, I'm quite surprised you have, never mind can run, the DOS-only version. It Just Works, as well as the DOS version did at least. In fact, exactly as well as the DOS version did.

 

What I meant was that if you go in expecting "standard Windows look-and-feel" rather than "DOS program you can mouse-click, if you really want to", you will be disappointed. I try very hard when training new directors to "take their mouse away"; it is *at least* twice as fast to do things with the keyboard (and arrow keys, if necessary) than with the mouse. Which, if you're used to the DOS version, will already be second nature to you.

[jillybean]

Ah, I caused you to misunderstand. Apologies.

 

This is *the version* of ACBLscor that everybody has been using since Windows 7 burned DOS. 20 years of tournaments and club games have run with ACBLScorW. In fact, I'm quite surprised you have, never mind can run, the DOS-only version. It Just Works, as well as the DOS version did at least. In fact, exactly as well as the DOS version did.

 

What I meant was that if you go in expecting "standard Windows look-and-feel" rather than "DOS program you can mouse-click, if you really want to", you will be disappointed. I try very hard when training new directors to "take their mouse away"; it is *at least* twice as fast to do things with the keyboard (and arrow keys, if necessary) than with the mouse. Which, if you're used to the DOS version, will already be second nature to you.

Nothing about running a game, or using DOS is second nature, yet :)

So I can simply use ACBLScorW on my MAC, why are clubs still running with DOS PC?

[jillybean]

You could always check out Magic Contest which is (and I quote from their website)

 

"....the national scoring program in Sweden, Norway, Iceland and Austria, and Finland is slowly moving in that direction. In France, all 29 federation comités (districts) as well as the national federation use Magic Contest.

 

Thanks to the cooperation with Bridgemate resellers, some 40 clubs Spain and some 35 clubs in Turkey use Magic Contest, as well as numerous clubs all over the world."

 

I don't have any affiliation with neither the company nor its owner other than being a very happy player for many years.

Thanks, I will

[pescetom]

Thanks, I will

I looked at the site and it looks a good prospect to me (just a bit expensive if your RA has no agreement).

[mycroft]

(and here is where my biases show up. They are - Zealot level. I do realize this.)

 

I have no idea if you can run ACBLScorW on your mac. If you have a windows emulator that runs more windows programs than not, go ahead and try it. It should be immediately obvious if it works or not.

 

I know nothing from Apple - I don't understand why people would want to run a computer system based on Linux BSD and then ignore all those tools and power to cover their screen with untranslatable pictures instead of actual words, and use unfathomable, unreadable, and constantly changing Apple "helper applications". From what jwz tells me, I am right to not understand. Frankly, if I need to live with "we know how best you should work", I'll stick with GatesWare - at least I have decades of experience with the ways they confuse their users. Oh, and at least there is support for Ignore their latest attempt to "help", make it work the way you're used to.

 

I haven't seen ACBLDOS running (even on my computers, even with DOSEMU on my linux box) since Steve retired. I know of no clubs running ACBLscor DOS - and I would be scared if they did, if they post to Live4Clubs - because it means a pre-Windows 7 computer is internet-connected, and therefore almost certainly internet-infected (or, you know, DOSEMU or sneakernet).

[jillybean]

I have a windows emulator, we will see how it works.

I don't know a lot about computers but enough to know that when I swapped from a PC to a MAC, I have never had to press CTR-ALT-DEL again! I have never had to reboot.

 

The difference is a little like when I stopped playing "Standard American" and started playing 2/1 :)

[pescetom]

Windoze is neither the only system nor the best, but in 2023 it should be no real limit either.

My hope is that the world can stablilize on USEBIO2 or some similar XML standard of output, both for electronic and f2f play.

Unfortunately I am not aware of any compatible multilingual f2f scoring program.

But lowering the bar, Magic Contest looks reasonable if one is lucky enough have Bridgemates and can afford it.

[blackshoe]

I know that ACBLScore works with Parallels on MacOS because I've used that configuration. I'm pretty sure it will work with Boot Camp. It will probably work with Wine, though it might take some work to set up.

 

There are those who prefer Windows and those who prefer MacOS (I'm one of the latter). There are those who prefer some flavor of Unix. To each his own. B-)

[jillybean]

Bridgemate question. If you pull in the scores at various times during the game, does the file get overwritten or is it appended?

The reason I ask is that it appears that a result was corrected on the BM but not the results file.

 

Thanks, any other BM tips? :)

[mycroft]

Once you bring in the scores into ACBLScor (Ctrl-P, BMP), those results are locked in. Changes on the Bridgemate server, or deletions and re-entry from the client, will not be automatically moved into ACBLScor for results already brought in.

 

That's why, unless there's a situation where we might lose some scores in the server (and we *don't* want those "losses" to overwrite the correct results), at tournaments we never BMP until we have to - before posting the leaderboards, for instance.

 

Yes, we lose the ability to see "how the game's going", a great pastime for the bored club director. At tournaments, we tend not to be bored.

 

As for other tips: (okay, some aren't relevant to clubs, 99+% of the time. The last one is!)

 

Test the bridgemates before the first session. Especially if you're using a computer you haven't before. The options might be right, but they might not be. And the USB port might not work/be plugged in/be a hub that isn't plugged in/...

 

Ensure that the clients are on the same firmware as the server, if you have your own server or if different places are bringing bridgemates, or if you're using your computer and their bridgemates.

 

Double and triple-check the movement in ACBLScor before BMS. Every session, every section. Even if you've done this movement 14 times before. Especially if it's a web, or a 3 or 4 table Howell, or a bye-relay, or a half table. Yes, everyone gripes when the bridgemates aren't ready immediately when the boards come out; sometimes even after the first people to get boards finish their first hand, even. If you get the movement wrong at all (even "it's only 13 tables, not 14 Mitchell"), when you fix it, the BridgeMate server will wipe the old results. I'd rather have 10 sessions of "aren't the bridgemates working yet?" over one "Sorry, you'll have to put in the first round again." But even that's better than "They're not supposed to be our opponents" (especially when only one table in 5 checked!)