Bid this hand more strongly?

[pescetom]

Here it looks fairly normal to stretch to respond, but lacking the ♠J I would pass and opener still has game.

Having taken that risk, I would have thought GiB now has a clear 4♥ rebid (what other hand could that show?) and responder can hardly accept a 3♥ invite.

[pilowsky]

[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|opp1,customer,opp2,~~M59978|md|4SQ4HJ42DQJ632CKJ4,SJ6532HK9DT87C965,SKT987H6DA5CQ8732,SAHAQT8753DK94CAT|sv|b|rh||ah|Board%2010|mb|1H|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205+%20!H;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|1S!|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204+%20!S;%206+%20total%20points|mb|P|mb|3H|an|Opener%20rebid%20--%206+%20!H;%203-%20!S;%2017-20%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|DQ|pc|D7|pc|DA|pc|D9|pc|D5|pc|DK|pc|D2|pc|DT|pc|H3|pc|H2|pc|HK|pc|H6|pc|H9|pc|S7|pc|HA|pc|H4|pc|HQ|pc|HJ|pc|S2|pc|C3|pc|HT|pc|D3|pc|S3|pc|S8|pc|H7|pc|D6|pc|C5|pc|C2|pc|H8|pc|C4|pc|S5|pc|S9|pc|H5|pc|S4|pc|C6|pc|C7|pc|D4|pc|DJ|pc|D8|pc|C8|pc|SQ|pc|S6|pc|ST|pc|SA|pc|CA|pc|CJ|pc|C9|pc|CQ|pc|CT|pc|CK|pc|SJ|pc|SK|]400|300|

 

Maybe East was offering choice of game?[/hv]

[pescetom]

Maybe East was offering choice of game?

That would be astute, if his sequence was forcing and suggested an obvious choice of game.

[smerriman]

Yeah, 3♥ wouldn't have been my choice - it won't bid 4♥ without either 20+ total points (nope, it counts 18) or 18+ total points (yes) with 'strong rebiddable hearts' - which is AKQ or 4 of the top 5 honors (nope).

 

And is told not to simulate to see if it's worth digressing from the rules.

 

In saying that, Kx was the perfect trump holding; switch the position of the major honors or replace it with a couple of minor suit Qs and game is looking a lot shakier. And even with Kx, you still needed friendly diamonds. I guess if it's going to have a fixed set of rules, they're probably not the worst definition.

[pescetom]

Yeah, 3♥ wouldn't have been my choice - it won't bid 4♥ without either 20+ total points (nope, it counts 18) or 18+ total points (yes) with 'strong rebiddable hearts' - which is AKQ or 4 of the top 5 honors (nope).

 

And is told not to simulate to see if it's worth digressing from the rules.

 

In saying that, Kx was the perfect trump holding; switch the position of the major honors or replace it with a couple of minor suit Qs and game is looking a lot shakier. And even with Kx, you still needed friendly diamonds. I guess if it's going to have a fixed set of rules, they're probably not the worst definition.

Hmm. I suspect a simulation opposite any 1X response would show game very probable (and still with some chance opposite pass, assuming one doesn't respond on two minor Queens or similar).

FWIW my expectation for a 4H rebid would be 7+ cards well honoured and too good for a 4H opening (assuming we don't play Namyats).

[pescetom]

Yeah, 3♥ wouldn't have been my choice - it won't bid 4♥ without either 20+ total points (nope, it counts 18) or 18+ total points (yes) with 'strong rebiddable hearts' - which is AKQ or 4 of the top 5 honors (nope).

 

And is told not to simulate to see if it's worth digressing from the rules.

My expectation for a 4H rebid would be 7+ cards too good for a 4H opening (assuming we don't play Namyats).

I suspect a simulation of this hand opposite any 1X response would show game very probable (and still with some chance opposite pass, assuming one doesn't respond on two minor Queens or similar :) ).

 

 

In saying that, Kx was the perfect trump holding; switch the position of the major honors or replace it with a couple of minor suit Qs and game is looking a lot shakier. And even with Kx, you still needed friendly diamonds. I guess if it's going to have a fixed set of rules, they're probably not the worst definition.

Hmm. It really doesn't take much, even just ♣K could do the trick on some layouts.

Certainly it should simulate rather than rely wholly on any fixed rule.

[helene_t]

GIB's 3x rebids are sounder and more wide-ranging than most human styles. I have never seen it jump shift on a fake minor, and it is also very reluctant to open 2♣ or rebid 4M. So 1♥..3♥ is basically what it does with very strong one-suiters.

[pescetom]

GIB's 3x rebids are sounder and more wide-ranging than most human styles. I have never seen it jump shift on a fake minor, and it is also very reluctant to open 2♣ or rebid 4M. So 1♥..3♥ is basically what it does with very strong one-suiters.

 

I imagine that may be a hangover from early Standard American style, where 1M...3M was a game force as I understand.

Not great, though.

[smerriman]

I suspect a simulation of this hand opposite any 1X response would show game very probable (and still with some chance opposite pass, assuming one doesn't respond on two minor Queens or similar :) ).

You're right - it would actually be very clear-cut for GIB if it simulated, because a response guarantees a very old-fashioned 6 HCP (with the only exception being if holding heart support).

 

And a quick sim suggests game is making double dummy about 65% of the time opposite a known 6 count.

 

How much that would be dragged down when including weaker hands like the one shown, I'm not sure though; would need to sort out some specifics about exactly what constitutes a response (and also what rejects the invite later).