You need an agreement here

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq6hjda9642cakj53&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=2s(preemptive%206-9)p3s(weak%20raise)?]133|200[/hv]

[apollo1201]

A bit weak for 4NT, partner and RHO have a bunch of hearts.

 

You might survive a 4C bid, hoping it is the right one you picked. But some play 4m ad m+H.

 

I think 3NT is more useful as natural here than showing a not too strong minor 2-suiter.

 

And it is unlikely, although not completely hopeless, that partner can contribute sth useful in S to help our half stopper.

 

And we’re red. Was it MP or IMPs?

 

I think I have to pass - after all, it is not a full worth 15 HCP hand and we’re scr*** in the auction. But not too confident it is the winning call.

[TylerE]

If I'm bidding (and I'm not) I'm bidding 4D, not 4C, because if we're bidding at all we're bidding 5m over 4♠, right? Can't correct ♦ to ♣, and the suit quality difference while there isn't vast. If the suits were Qxxxx AKQJx this would be a different conversation.

 

Really at these colors though, just...no. We could easily beat 3S 2 or 3 tricks while not being able to make squat. On a good day, partner leads their stiff club

or doubleton club and we're taking like 8 tricks off the top with a few ruffs.

 

If I was going to take a stab at anything (and again, I'm not), well, it's a lot easier to take 9 tricks than 11, and parter is allowed to hold ♠Jxx or stiff K or whatever. It's probably not making, and if it's not making it's probably REALLY not making (like their 3S, actually...) but it's MP. -200 and -800 could easily score the same number of matchpoints. -100 might even.

[LBengtsson]

Here's a agreement I made up from studying the fix, I would not recommend it though. lol

 

3NT minors

4♣/4♦/4♥/4♠ one suited hands

4NT big minors

 

X is a relay (!) Partner bids 3NT. If you want to play there you pass (!) The strong hand is on the table [i know it is garbage so no comments please :)]

 

After partner bids 3NT, you bid 4♣ for ♣/♥, 4♦ for ♦/♥, 4♥ for ♥/♠ and 4♠ for ♠ and a minor two suited hands.

 

You saw it first here: the Bengtsson Convention :) :) :)

[mikeh]

3N is to play. Too valuable to give up. For me, a slow pass seems about right…a desire to bid but no good call

 

 

Just kidding

 

Pass, hopefully in tempo

 

I suspect one of the minors will play well, but I don’t know which and the hand is wrong, imo, for 4N

[TylerE]

It's really the colors that kill it. Red vs White you're really trying to thread the needle. -100 (e.g. NV x-1) may well be a great score if par is -110 or -140 or whatever.

 

It's really really hard for -200 to do well at MP, unless it's 2M+3m, because you're not beating any score that's likely to occur at another table.

[jillybean]

I am surprised that people want 3NT as natural, opponents have preempted and raised a major and I am struggling to picture a hand that wants to play in 3NT

[Stephen Tu]

I am surprised that people want 3NT as natural, opponents have preempted and raised a major and I am struggling to picture a hand that wants to play in 3NT

 

Have you seen the suits and hands people preempt on at favorable these days? South could have a triple stopper and a strong hand. Or Axx and be able to hold up and prevail if can keep west off lead, opener may not have a side entry. Or a stopper and a long suit source of tricks, might have to gamble sometimes on partner providing some useful help for the ninth trick.

 

[helene_t]

IMHO 3NT is always natural unless

- we have a slower route available in the unlikely event that we want to play 3NT (this applies in some scenarios where opps double or redouble), OR

- a natural 3NT is completely impossible. This applied in some scenarios where we are a passed hand or opps are in a GF or we have preempted ourselves, OR

- some convention such as serious/frivolous 3NT applies

 

Anyway, I think I agree with pass although it wouldn't surprise me too much if it is wrong and that 3NT or 4NT has higher expected value.

 

If partner balances with 4♥ (not completely impossible, they should have a weak hand with 7+ hearts and we have agreed to play a direct 4♥ as stronger than 3♥) I will pass again. If partner balances with dbl it is penalty. If partner balances with 3NT it is a weak two-suiter (should be 6-5 I think) and probably 5m is enough.

[Cyberyeti]

If I'm bidding (and I'm not) I'm bidding 4D, not 4C, because if we're bidding at all we're bidding 5m over 4♠, right? Can't correct ♦ to ♣, and the suit quality difference while there isn't vast. If the suits were Qxxxx AKQJx this would be a different conversation.

 

Really at these colors though, just...no. We could easily beat 3S 2 or 3 tricks while not being able to make squat. On a good day, partner leads their stiff club

or doubleton club and we're taking like 8 tricks off the top with a few ruffs.

 

If I was going to take a stab at anything (and again, I'm not), well, it's a lot easier to take 9 tricks than 11, and parter is allowed to hold ♠Jxx or stiff K or whatever. It's probably not making, and if it's not making it's probably REALLY not making (like their 3S, actually...) but it's MP. -200 and -800 could easily score the same number of matchpoints. -100 might even.

 

You can't correct diamonds to clubs, but you could bid it like a 2146 and bid 4N second time.

 

I agree with everybody pass is right, but the fact that this has been posted indicates it's not going to work

[jillybean]

 

I agree with everybody pass is right, but the fact that this has been posted indicates it's not going to work

It worked very well, but I was W.

 

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sq6hjda9642cakj53&w=sajt972h986dqtcq2&n=skhk54dkj875c9764&e=s8543haqt732d3ct8&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=2sp3s]399|300[/hv]

 

North/South were discussing what a 3NT bid would show here, I play disciplined weak2's so 3NT for the minors makes sense to me.

[DavidKok]

I think 3NT should be to play and this hand should pass. Sometimes they get you. 4♠ (GF both minors) is an aggressive alternative, perhaps worth considering if we have been informed that the opponents play disciplined preempts (although I would still pass).

I play Nonleaping Michaels on this auction.

I would have raised to 4 opposite a disciplined weak two.

[blackshoe]

North/South were discussing what a 3NT bid would show here, I play disciplined weak2's so 3NT for the minors makes sense to me.

It may make sense but right now it's making my brain itch. B-)

[jillybean]

It may make sense but right now it's making my brain itch. B-)

 

Haha, I love the expression.

Have I not expressed it clearly or do you simply think that 3NT to show South's hand is crazy?

[smerriman]

With 4NT available if you wanted to play in a minor, I don't think you need a second bid specifically designed to stop on a dime of 4m. 4m is the wrong place to play if you're making 11 tricks, wrong most of the time that you're making 9 tricks, wrong any time it pushes them into a making game..

[jillybean]

I understand that. Mistakenly, I did not envisage a natural 3NT in this situation so why use 4NT?

3NT leaves room for partner to cue the opponents Major/ other Major, we may have a minor slam?

 

The subsequent replies make it clear that I do want a natural 3NT bid here, end of brain itch.

[the hog]

3NT is obviously natural and to play. I pass this hand.

You can't imagine a hand that wants to bid 3NT naturally?

Kx Ax AKQJxxx Kx

[jillybean]

3NT is obviously natural and to play. I pass this hand.

You can't imagine a hand that wants to bid 3NT naturally?

Kx Ax AKQJxxx Kx

Do you want to stop in 3NT?

[jillybean]

I guess being safe, you do want to stop in a makeable contract rather than a pinpoint landing on 6♦

Boring, but ok :)

[the hog]

"Do you want to stop in 3NT?"

If 3NT is making and 6 minor is not, of course I do.

 

[TylerE]

I understand that. Mistakenly, I did not envisage a natural 3NT in this situation so why use 4NT?

3NT leaves room for partner to cue the opponents Major/ other Major, we may have a minor slam?

 

The subsequent replies make it clear that I do want a natural 3NT bid here, end of brain itch.

 

You'll win a lot more matchpoints (and events) by not missing obvious 3NT contracts than by finding some ultra thin minor suit slam that may or may not make once a month.

 

Soliciting a weak 2 bid for cues is not that useful, and your structure over 2M should have some low level way to start an inquiry (like some sort of 2N ask).