Another 2236

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqh43dq64ckt9863&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=?]133|200[/hv]

 

MP, 2/1, 12-14NT

[Tramticket]

One club. No need to distort the weak no trump.

[Cyberyeti]

First seat 1♣, might be more inclined to open 1N in 3rd and pull a double to 2♣ or in 4th.

[mikeh]

I have a partner who liked opening our 11-13 1N with a 6 card minor. He’s a truly fine player but we agreed to disagree on this. Does it work sometimes? Yes. Does it fail sometimes? Yes

 

I don’t like it because partner won’t cater to it and may be misled in the bidding or the defence. He likes it because it’s preemptive whereas 1C is anti-preemptive. It can provide an edge in declarer play if the opps misread their partner’s shape. And so on, back and forth.

 

So I say 1C but know some fine players who think 1N is at least as good or better.

[jillybean]

1C (1S) 2H (P)

?

 

(On phone, can't do hand diagram)

[thepossum]

1 club :) - although occasionally 1NT or even pass depending on mood

[Cyberyeti]

1C (1S) 2H (P)

?

 

(On phone, can't do hand diagram)

 

Presuming this is nat F I bid 3♣

[AL78]

1C (1S) 2H (P)

?

 

(On phone, can't do hand diagram)

 

If 2♥ is forcing rather than disturbed bids are weak then I bid 3♣. If partner forces me to bid, I make a bid compatible with my hand and it goes badly wrong, it is partner's fault.

[DavidKok]

I have a partner who liked opening our 11-13 1N with a 6 card minor. He’s a truly fine player but we agreed to disagree on this. Does it work sometimes? Yes. Does it fail sometimes? Yes

 

I don’t like it because partner won’t cater to it and may be misled in the bidding or the defence. He likes it because it’s preemptive whereas 1C is anti-preemptive. It can provide an edge in declarer play if the opps misread their partner’s shape. And so on, back and forth.

 

So I say 1C but know some fine players who think 1N is at least as good or better.

I think this is a great summary. I slightly prefer 1NT, but have no idea whether it's better in the long run.

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♥-(P); 3♣.

[mycroft]

I will frequently bid 1NT with a 6 card minor (for the reasons MikeH's partner mentions), but not always, and ♥xx seems to be a poor sign - especially with (strangely enough) bad clubs. AJTxxx plays one-loser with a card opposite; Kxxxxx (even KT9xxx) is likely to only score long tricks as trumps.

 

But our rule - not a standard K/S rule, to my knowledge, but it's what we play - is "if you've opened an overstrength preempt 1m, rebid it at your first opportunity if it's sane to do so." Frankly, because otherwise we assume a strong NT as responder. We are willing to push safety a little bit to avoid -530s, so in the following auction, 3♣.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqh43dq64ckt9863&w=sj98765hj72daj9c7&n=skhakq965dt72caqj&e=st432ht8dk853c542&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1c1s2hp3cp3sp3np4cp5d(1/4)p6c]399|300[/hv]h

[pescetom]

[hv=pc=n&s=saqh43dq64ckt9863&w=sj98765hj72daj9c7&n=skhakq965dt72caqj&e=st432ht8dk853c542&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1c1s2hp3cp3sp3np4cp5d(1/4)p6c]399|300[/hv]h

 

The 2020 referendum found 48% in favour of legalisation IIRC? B-)

[smerriman]

I suspect the error was somewhere between the 4♣ bid and the leap to 5♦ response ;)

[pescetom]

I suspect the error was somewhere between the 4♣ bid and the leap to 5♦ response ;)

You're more enthusiastic about the (unalerted) 3♠ bid than I am, then.

[jillybean]

You're more enthusiastic about the (unalerted) 3♠ bid than I am, then.

In which universe are cue bids alerted?

 

No jump, 5♦ typo of course

 

[hv=pc=n&s=saqh43dq64ckt9863&w=sj98765hj72daj9c7&n=skhakq965dt72caqj&e=st432ht8dk853c542&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1c1s2hp3cp3sp3np4cp4d(1/4)p6c]399|300[/hv]h

[bluenikki]

I will frequently bid 1NT with a 6 card minor (for the reasons MikeH's partner mentions), but not always, and ♥xx seems to be a poor sign - especially with (strangely enough) bad clubs. AJTxxx plays one-loser with a card opposite; Kxxxxx (even KT9xxx) is likely to only score long tricks as trumps.

 

But our rule - not a standard K/S rule, to my knowledge, but it's what we play - is "if you've opened an overstrength preempt 1m, rebid it at your first opportunity if it's sane to do so." Frankly, because otherwise we assume a strong NT as responder. We are willing to push safety a little bit to avoid -530s, so in the following auction, 3♣.

In KS, why not play that double shows strong NT? Pass shows minimum with bad long suit.

[DavidKok]

No jump, 5♦ typo of course

Then the mistake was the other jump, the one right after ;)

I think the slam bidding of many players will improve if you agree to never jump.

[smerriman]

The mistake seems to be using 4♣ as keycard, but you already know that based on your other topics about 4♣. North needs a way to say 'clubs are trumps, let investigate slam'; if the only way you can do that is to ask for keycards, then you'll just have to accept you'll never be able to bid a club slam properly - just guess and hope.

 

South has two keycards too, not 1/4, but I'm guessing that was either another typo or due to the weird 4♣ definition again, and isn't really relevant to the mistake.

[jillybean]

Then the mistake was the other jump, the one right after ;)

I think the slam bidding of many players will improve if you agree to never jump.

I'd like to write on top of our card "No jumps in a GF auction" unless 1M 2NT 4M, I've opened on crap.

 

4♣ is almost exclusively used as ace asking here so I am up against local conventions, and frequent misunderstandings.

[pescetom]

In which universe are cue bids alerted?

F2F without screens and below 3NT, the universe faithful to WBF alerting policy (a large part of the globe).

[jillybean]

F2F without screens and below 3NT, the universe faithful to WBF alerting policy (a large part of the globe).

Anywhere else, the universe of ethical and meaningful bridge.

I won't argue, I'm not going to try to find and read the alert regulations :)

I have been told many times not to alert Cue bids or doubles, so I don't.

 

"Cue bids are self alerting"

[pescetom]

I won't argue, I'm not going to try to find and read the alert regulations :)

I have been told many times not to alert Cue bids or doubles, so I don't.

 

"Cue bids are self alerting"

 

I don't understand why you expect it to be difficult to find and read NZ alert regulations :)

But I too should have done so before commenting, sorry.

Because they do indeed consider Cue bids of opponent's suit as self-alerting (29.2.4 Self-alerting calls defined), like ACBL and unlike WBF or EBU or FIGB.

So in NZ it would be incorrect to alert 3♠ (and risky for opponents to ask for an explanation, even though it is not obvious).

[smerriman]

4♣ is almost exclusively used as ace asking here so I am up against local conventions, and frequent misunderstandings.

Do your partners ever comment on these type of hands too? Do they realise it's an unplayable system when these types of hands come up, or do they simply not know there are other ways to investigate controls and put up with the fact they often lose the first two tricks?

 

[edit] for reference, wasn't meaning this as a way of seeing if your partners are clueless, but just that whenever I thinking about playing a new convention, the first question is how you handle bids that it replaces - i.e., in this case, how you support clubs in all the auctions you need to. So was wondering whether they learnt an answer to that question themselves that we/you're not aware of. Surely these hands must frustrate them too.

[mycroft]

You're more enthusiastic about the (unalerted) 3♠ bid than I am, then.

Looks fine to me (but we've been around the block on alertability of these bids before, and I assume it is in Italy and not in ACBL/NZ). "bid 3NT with a stopper". "cancel that, it was actually a cue for a club slam". Not sure about the KC response to what was clearly a club raise (even if you're not a "BabyFood"ite), but you know... [Edit: P_Marlowe brings up minorwood. Okay, I'll take minorwood. But it's still a club raise.]

 

 

In KS, why not play that double shows strong NT? Pass shows minimum with bad long suit.

Because we like support doubles. Pass strongly implying the strong NT and rebid the long suit (if at all safe) works for us better, and more often, than not being able to show the quality of support. I did say it's not standard.

[P_Marlowe]

I'd like to write on top of our card "No jumps in a GF auction" unless 1M 2NT 4M, I've opened on crap.

 

4♣ is almost exclusively used as ace asking here so I am up against local conventions, and frequent misunderstandings.

Ok, ..., same here. Luckily I have partner who let me stick to 4NT as only KC ask, but this does not help you:

 

If they insist on 4m as always being KC, make the KC conditional, this should be an acepptable compromise:

 

First step says you are dead, the usual responses start with the 2nd step.

In your given auction South would bid 4D, but this would not show 1/4 but min.

If they still are interested in asking for KCs, 4H would be the KC ask repeated,

you still have 3 steps (1/4,0, 2 without Q),

which should cover the possible answers a min hand gives.

 

You still can sign of in 4NT after a min response.

 

I tried to find a writeup internet page, ..., I am not using this, so I am not really

familar with it.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe