beatrix45 Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 RHO opens the bidding for 1♠. Both sides are vulnerable and the scoring is IMPs. What do you bid with this hand? [hv=d=e&v=b&s=sk8hq7652dk8caq84]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] How about? [hv=d=e&v=b&s=sk8hq7652dk8caq84]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Corrected hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Pass, on both. And I can not believe anyone would seriously consider bidding on the second one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elianna Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well, on the second hand I'd call the director, because I seem to only have 12 cards. Ok, been corrected. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Rereading Mike lawrence's takeout doubles after more than 10 years. In regards to hand one: "The point of this discussion is that you will have tough decisions when your choices are to overcall two hearts or double. Learn this one little secret well. It is harder to bid over one spade than any of the other suits. Be honest and recognize this. When your opponent opens one spade, you will have many difficult decisions....The point to be learned here is that nothing is perfect. Even experts disagree." I would double but..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 The second one now has an added king of clubs. So my comment about considering bidding with it is also retracted. Having said that, I still pass hand one, but now I might double with hand two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 pass with both. My suit is cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 I pass on both. There is almost no upside to bidding immediately on these hands and a very large downside. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Double on both, under the principle of "in quick, out quick." There is a huge upside to bidding immediately on these hands and a very small downside :D :P :P If pard bids diamonds, too bad. But it should still have a play for. And if I'm playing equal level correction, I can bid 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Pass, and smoothly. I want partner to be able to bid with a suitable hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 I wouldn't blame partner for bidding 1NT with hand 1 and double with hand 2, but my choice is "pass" in both cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Pass both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Hi, Hand 1) Pass. Hand 2) Pass or 2H, depending on the constellation of earth, moon and sun, maybe I am bored and I am looking for action I will not double With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Pass both. Hate double more than I hate 2♥! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 If you give me the 2nd hand, but give back that spade king, and move a club to a diamond, then I would double... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 I must say I'm surprised to see so many passes. Especially since most people here read Robson's book, under which both hands are automatic take-out doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 I would pass the first one but wouuld venture 2H with second hand. QT8xx is much better than Qxxxx. I know it is risky but I am willing to take this risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 VUL I will pass on bo :D th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Especially since most people here read Robson's book, under which both hands are automatic take-out doubles. Are you sure? I have this book in front of me now, and I can't see what would make you say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well, check page 206. There you hold: ♠ Kxxxx♥ Ax♦ KQxx♣ Ax RHO opens 2♣, precision: 5 clubs, 11-15 hcp. Robson/Segal recommend a take-out double of 2♣, followed by 2♠ if pard bids 2♥. The situation with the hands of this tread after 1♠ is very similar, hence my comment of 'automatic take-out double'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well, check page 206. There you hold: ♠ Kxxxx♥ Ax♦ KQxx♣ Ax RHO opens 2♣, precision: 5 clubs, 11-15 hcp. Robson/Segal recommend a take-out double of 2♣, followed by 2♠ if pard bids 2♥. The situation with the hands of this tread after 1♠ is very similar, hence my comment of 'automatic take-out double'. Been a while since I read R+S. Do they assume equal level conversion? Its also worth noting that the hand that R+S provide is significantly strong than the ones that you originally posted. This hand is worth 17.1 using the K+R scale. The stronger of the two hands that you presented is only a 14.35... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Well, check page 206. There you hold: ♠ Kxxxx♥ Ax♦ KQxx♣ Ax RHO opens 2♣, precision: 5 clubs, 11-15 hcp. Robson/Segal recommend a take-out double of 2♣, followed by 2♠ if pard bids 2♥. That hand has four and a half lost tricks. It's significantly stronger than the two hands from this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 hrothgar: yes, RS advocate equal level correction. In fact, it's one of the cornerstones of their 'competition without known fit' theory. It is true RS's example is a tad stronger than the original hands on this tread, but he also has examples of off-shape take-out doubles on weaker hands. Still, it's all a matter of judgement. I don't mind evading shape requirements in order to butt-in as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmacfar Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Hand 1) Double. If partner bids clubs/hearts you can compete. King spades appears safe. With a higher and/or extra honor in hearts, o'call 2H. Hand 2) Pass. Too many fast losers and K♦ may not be safe. See what develops from partner bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craisin Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 :lol: You must pass on both. A takeout double GUARANTEES three cards in each of the unbid suits with a "close to opening/opening" hand OR 16+ HCP An overcall at the two level requires at least 10+HCP (and preferably an opening hand of 12+HCP with unfavourable vulnerability) but most importantly SUIT QUALITY. It should GUARANTEE two of the top three or three of the top 5 honours.(i.e. 2 of AKQ or 3 of AKQJ10). Let's face it, if we don't end up winning the contract, partner will lead our bid suit to us and we will play high (if partner leads low). With simply the Queen as our top honour she will probably drop on first round....and what have we left? If we DO win the contract, it is very embarassing to find that the opposition have both the Ace, King AND Jack all over us! What can we hope to achieve? Definately pass on both hands...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 If we are playing RS methods, #1 is a clear double and # 2 is boraderline (I would bid it). If we swap the rounded suits, #1 becomes borderline and #2 is a clear pass. Scrambling to 2♥ on a four carder is less likely to do well as partner won't have four. A scamble to 3♣ is not possible as that would be a GOSH in RS methods (It would have been a jump overcall if it had been bid directly over the opening.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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