5332 responding to 1H

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&n=sqt987ht94dq98cq3&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1hp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1 & "standard", answer for either or both, thanks.

[P_Marlowe]

Assuming you can bid 2H, 2H is clear cut.

If you dont show the min raise now, partner will never give you credit for primary support.

 

If you cant show bid 2H, e.g. you are playing constructive raises 7-10 (you still could pretend,

you have the 7), than 1S, if you happen to play Kaplan Inversion, showing 5+ spades, even better,

but otherwise 2H, even if you could show the 5 carder.

 

Bridge is simple, you have support for partner, tell it partner as fast as possible.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[LBengtsson]

I assume you can bid either 1♠ or raise to 2♥ with this hand, jillybean. Well I am always for telling partner I have a fit immediately except here. I am bidding 1♠. You have zero ruffing values, and 3NT may be the better contract even with a 5-3♥ fit. If partner rebids 2NT you then can bid 3♥ giving him a choice of games. I would not supress this decent 5♠ suit. You may have a double fit, also, which would make it easier to assess the chance of game.

[DavidKok]

I strongly prefer 2♥ but a lot of people will expect 1♠.

[Frank_lol_]

I will bid 1♠ because 2♥ promises 8-10 for me.

[mw64ahw]

I would prefer to be in 2♠ rather than 2♥ if you have the methods to find the 5-3♠ fit.

Absent that I'd go via 1♠ and then support ♥ to show the weak support.

[pescetom]

I would bid 1♠ with no concern, to my eye it's a hand that belongs in NT rather than hearts anyway.

[P_Marlowe]

I would prefer to be in 2♠ rather than 2♥ if you have the methods to find the 5-3♠ fit.

Absent that I'd go via 1♠ and then support ♥ to show the weak support.

You dont support, you show preference, even if you would bid hearts over a NT rebid bye opener.

This does not make the mentioned plan wrong, but it is important to understand that there is a difference

between support and preference.

[jillybean]

I will bid 1♠ because 2♥ promises 8-10 for me.

Would 1nt get you to 2♥ then?

[jillybean]

If you bid 1♠ then show preference for 2♥ should partner expect 2 card support?

[P_Marlowe]

If you bid 1♠ then show preference for 2♥ should partner expect 2 card support?

Lets say the auction goes

 

1H - 1S

2m -

 

 

The question is, what do you expect partner with 5S, 5in the other minor, 1H and 2cards in openers minor.

Part of the question involves, is 2m always 4+, or could it be 3+

3+ happens, if you open a 5332 shape always in the major instead of 1NT, in which case you have to improvise

with a 3+ card suit in a minor.

 

For me the answer is, the preference does not promise 2+, for others the answer may be different.

[pescetom]

If you bid 1♠ then show preference for 2♥ should partner expect 2 card support?

 

For me (2/1 with SFNT) it depends upon opener's rebid.

If 1NT, then both 2♥ and 2♠ are essentially signoff, but should be 2+ (almost certainly 3) and 5+ respectively.

If 2m, then 2♥ is the same, but 2♠ is 6= and no longer a death sentence (opener might have 17) although not particularly inviting.

[mikeh]

Unless playing a method in which 2H shows semi constructive or better values, 2H is 100% imo.

 

Why?

 

Traditionally, and to this day for most, 1S then a true heart raise shows constructive values

 

You’d probably survive 1H P 1S P 1N P 2H P… because, having bid 1N, opener is unlikely to bid again. But…and this is an important but….what if the bidding goes 1H P 1S 3m P P?

 

Opener could easily have six hearts and you may need to compete to 3H but you’re too weak to do this….now opener not only may be in trouble (possibly doubled) but also may bid a terrible game, expecting a better hand than you have.

 

Thus 2H. Let’s partner in on the fact that you have a modest hand with heart support. Does that describe your hand? Yes. So why not let partner in on this?

 

What’s 1S gaining you?

 

Even if the opps stay silent, 1S gets you nowhere 2H won’t get you, given that you’re not passing 1N or 2m. If you belong in spades, partner can bid 2S over 2H (some play that as artificial but in standard methods and absent specific agreement otherwise, it’s a natural game try. I doubt you are worth a raise, but the 5-3 heart fit will almost always play as well as the 5-4 spade fit when opener has extras, as he must have to bid 2S.

 

Meanwhile, 1H 1S 2m 2H doesn’t promise 3H.

 

When you have a one bid hand….as you do here….always show support if you have it. This is a partnership game.

 

If you do play 2H as a better hand, the solution is not to bid 1S then mislead partner via 2H later. It’s to bid 1N then 2H. Yes, unless you’re playing methods such as Bart, partner won’t know whether you have 2 or 3 hearts, but he’ll know that if you have 3, you’re too weak to have raised immediately

 

Frankly, if not playing a semi forcing or forcing 1N, I think any call other than 2H is not partnership bridge.

[Frank_lol_]

Would 1nt get you to 2♥ then?

Yes.

But 1NT would denies 4S for us. And if I go through 1NT, it would mean good 6-9 with 2 card support or 5-7 with 3 card support, which makes the opener's life a bit harder.

[jillybean]

I can't come to an agreement here , I'm going to continue to choke every time partner puts down a minimum 53xx hand where the auction has started 1♥:1♠

[mw64ahw]

You dont support, you show preference, even if you would bid hearts over a NT rebid bye opener.

This does not make the mentioned plan wrong, but it is important to understand that there is a difference

between support and preference.

Speaking from responder's perspective, as here, they have 3-card support as there is no interest in a minor suit and from opener's it would be preference until dummy goes down.

[sfi]

I can't come to an agreement here , I'm going to continue to choke every time partner puts down a minimum 53xx hand where the auction has started 1♥:1♠

I found the same thing recently when playing at NZ Congress for the first time last year. I raised to 2H with this sort of a hand and was genuinely surprised when partner and others thought it was the wrong way to handle it. My takeaway was that it is an NZ quirk.

[P_Marlowe]

I can't come to an agreement here , I'm going to continue to choke every time partner puts down a minimum 53xx hand where the auction has started 1♥:1♠

NZ was Acol Land?

If the answer is yes, than this may be the explanation.

[jillybean]

Yes, NZ is ACOL land but most seem to play ACOL 5 card majors.

 

And no, this is with a northern hemisphere 2/1 partner.

 

 

(I thought this was a simple question, I see I've posted it in the wrong forum)

[DavidKok]

For what it's worth I've gotten some questions after raising instead of showing spades before. There are other auctions where we also bypass spades (notably 1♣-1♥; 1NT may contain a 4-card spade suit) which also not everybody seems to expect. I've even seen people do worse things, i.e. on 1♠-(2♣)-? introduce hearts with a 3=5=x=y 9-count 'intending to support spades on the next round' (surprise: next round is at the 4♣-level). I'm not sure that it's a local quirk, I think it's just poor bridge.

[nullve]

I will bid 1♠ because 2♥ promises 8-10 for me.

Yes, but total points, not hcp. (Very important!)

 

Yes.

But 1NT would denies 4S for us. And if I go through 1NT, it would mean good 6-9 with 2 card support or 5-7 with 3 card support, which makes the opener's life a bit harder.

In standard 2/1,

 

1M-1N; 2m-2M

 

and

 

1♠-1N; 2♥-2♠

 

is either (possibly false) preference with doubleton support (and ~ 5-9 hcp) OR something like 5-7 total points with 3c support. Over this, Opener bids exactly as he would if Responder's rebid had denied 3c support.

 

It's obviously possible to play

 

1♥-1♠; 2m-2♥

 

the same way.

[DavidKok]

That's certainly a style of 2/1, but I think calling it 'standard' is an overbid.

[Frank_lol_]

Yes, but total points, not hcp. (Very important!)

 

Am I too conservative? that hand does not look 8-10 for me.

 

In standard 2/1,

 

1M-1N; 2m-2M

 

and

 

1♠-1N; 2♥-2♠

 

is either (possibly false) preference with doubleton support (and ~ 5-9 hcp) OR something like 5-7 total points with 3c support. Over this, Opener bids exactly as he would if Responder's rebid had denied 3c support.

 

It's obviously possible to play

 

1♥-1♠; 2m-2♥

 

the same way.

 

oh, I'm expecting 1♥-1♠-1NT. But you are right, we do play like that.

[bluenikki]

[hv=pc=n&n=sqt987ht94dq98cq3&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1hp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Playing 2/1 & "standard", answer for either or both, thanks.

If you have an established partnership, you will have decided what 1♥ - 1♠ ; 1NT - 2♥ means. If it is this hand, you bid 1♠. If it would be forward-going, you don't.

 

Playing with a stranger, bidding 1♠ is very dangerous.

[nullve]

Am I too conservative? that hand does not look 8-10 for me.

Not to me, either!