pilowsky Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 The free ACOL (sic) individual Daylong, with actual Acol-like bidding.Are there any system notes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Um, wow? This appears to be gigantic news? https://doc.bridgebase.com/Help/Acol-robot-system-notes.html But why this of all things? The date doesn't appear to be April 1.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Oh my.. it's not GIB.. it's Argine.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilowsky Posted October 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 atm I'm sitting on 51.85% with ~20 hours to go.Considering I know about as much about Acol as I know about particle physics I'm pretty chuffed . The provisional results window has a tab that leads to the 2/1 system notes, so that could be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepossum Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Thx for the tip. I had a play :) It felt weird after years of GiB 2/1 - not that different but different enough Getting used to the different hours will be weird too - different part of the world is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 26, 2022 Report Share Posted October 26, 2022 Nice start but they still have a way to go. There are many consequences of the weak NT which they haven't got right yet. 1♦-1♥1NT*should be 15-17 (or 15-16 in agricultural style), not 18-19 1♦-1♠2♠*should not be 11-14. It will have extra values (say a soft 15-16 bal or so) or shortness somewhere so appr. equivalent playing strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepossum Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 There is something lacking so far. I seem to be able to find the right contracts (most of the time) from previous knowledge of how to bid rather than the descriptions Missed one clear game because I couldn't find the bid. All a bit weird so far Sadly in the absence of a nice handy "as you go" annotation tool I will have forgotten most of the problems this time tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilowsky Posted October 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 Here's one major difference - it uses Gambling 3NT.[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=ZZ%7C%7Cpn%7Cpilowsky%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C4SJ2H52DAKQ9862CA4%2CSA853HJT94D4CKT52%2CSKT97HK876D53CQ96%2CSQ64HAQ3DJT7CJ873%7Csv%7CE%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3N%21%7Can%7CHCP%209-13%3B%20Gambling%2C%20solid%207-card%20minor%20-%20Non%20forcing%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cmc%7C9%7C]400|300|[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 1♠-2♥2♠*is nonforcing is (almost) all variants of Acol. Yes I know that The Hog likes to play it as forcing. The robots play it as forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 1♠-2♥2♠*is nonforcing is (almost) all variants of Acol. Yes I know that The Hog likes to play it as forcing. The robots play it as forcing.3 weak twos?1NT can include 5cM but 2NT not?"Standard" support doubles?3/5 leads? Not sure Terence Reese would recognise this as Acol ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepossum Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 Here's one major difference - it uses Gambling 3NT.[hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=ZZ%7C%7Cpn%7Cpilowsky%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C4SJ2H52DAKQ9862CA4%2CSA853HJT94D4CKT52%2CSKT97HK876D53CQ96%2CSQ64HAQ3DJT7CJ873%7Csv%7CE%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3N%21%7Can%7CHCP%209-13%3B%20Gambling%2C%20solid%207-card%20minor%20-%20Non%20forcing%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cmc%7C9%7C]400|300|[/hv] Excitement plus. Looking forward to using it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepossum Posted October 27, 2022 Report Share Posted October 27, 2022 I've been referring to this What I used to use as Acol It has added excitement to the BBO experience, has it not I am waiting for the Precision Bot EDIT Just checked my second ACOL (sorry Acol) attempt - which shows how remarkable statistics on 8 hands can be I should post one particularly sad hand - not for me - but for all these other people who made a perfectly reasonable bid In fact here it is. Not an unreasonable bid anyway and not deserving of its fate. 4+ HCPs apparently [hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?bbo=y&lin=pn%7CSouth%2CRobot%2CRobot%2CRobot%7Cst%7C%7Cmd%7C2SJ86HKJ865DAQ4CA8%2CSKQ5H9DKJ9762CJ74%2CS432HAQT743DCT965%2CSAT97H2DT853CKQ32%7Csv%7C0%7Cah%7CBoard%208%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7C1%2B%21C%3B%206%21D%3B%20HCP%205-10%3B%20weak%20hand%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C3D%7Can%7C2%2B%21D%3B%20HCP%20No%20indication%3B%20fit%20in%20%21D%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7C6%2B%21H%3B%20HCP%204%2B%3B%20natural%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7C6H%7Can%7C2%2B%21H%3B%20HCP%2017-%3B%20to%20play%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cmb%7CP%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cmc%7C9%7C]400|300[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 28, 2022 Report Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 weak twos?1NT can include 5cM but 2NT not?"Standard" support doubles?3/5 leads? Not sure Terence Reese would recognise this as Acol ;)1NT with a 5cM and 3 weak twos is quite normal nowadays, but support doubles are not common at all and that a 2NT opening can't contain a 5cM is just weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerriman Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 Argine's 4♥ feels like a homage to GIB's biddable suits :) [hv=https://www.bridgebase.com/tools/handviewer.html?lin=st||pn|smerriman,Argine,Argine,Argine|md|4S93HADK8CAQJT9872,SKTHKQ8DQ9754CK54,SJ852HT76532DJTC6,SAQ764HJ94DA632C3|sv|e|rh||ah|Board%206|mb|1S|an|4+!S;%20HCP%2011-20;%20natural|mb|3S|an|HCP%2010-17;%20Gambling,%20solid%207-card%20minor%20and%20asks%20for%20stopper%20in%20!S%20-%20Forcing|mb|D|an|HCP%206+;%20penalty|mb|4H|an|6+!H;%20HCP%2014-;%20natural|mb|P|mb|P|mb|D|an|HCP%206+;%20penalty|mb|P|mb|P|mb|5C|an|6+!C;%20HCP%2010-17;%20natural|mb|D|an|HCP%206+;%20penalty|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|SK|pc|S2|pc|S4|pc|S3|pc|ST|pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|S9|pc|SA|pc|C7|pc|CK|pc|S5|pc|C4|pc|C6|pc|C3|pc|C2|pc|DJ|pc|D3|pc|D8|pc|DQ|pc|HK|pc|H2|pc|H4|pc|HA|pc|CA|pc|C5|pc|S8|pc|S6|pc|CQ|pc|D7|pc|DT|pc|S7|pc|CJ|pc|H8|pc|H3|pc|D2|pc|CT|pc|D4|pc|H5|pc|D6|pc|C9|pc|D5|pc|H6|pc|H9|pc|C8|pc|D9|pc|H7|pc|HJ|pc|DK|pc|HQ|pc|HT|pc|DA|]400|300[/hv] Also had the opponents open a weak 2♦, only to find a 3♦ overcall was natural. I've forgotten how unusable non-RKC Blackwood is too. Whose idea was to teach that to beginners? Still, it's fun to play with a new system. And how nice it is to see some actual signalling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 I've forgotten how unusable non-RKC Blackwood is too. Whose idea was to teach that to beginners?There was a Dutch bridge teacher who said that he prefered teaching Blackwood exactly because it is useless. The students therefore won't overuse ace asking so badly. I am not sure if he was serious. But Berry Westra once wrote that RKC should not be on the menu for ordinary club players because it's too complicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 I am waiting for the Precision BotMe too, but also the 2/1 Bot :) Here's hoping that BBO now take the plunge to label the Robots rather than just "ROBOT". It was already stressful not to distinguish between basic and "advanced" Gib, but one really should know about Argine, both as partner and as opponent. Are we allowed to know how Argine was ported? Will there remain a single Argine code base for Funbridge and BBO or are they now two separate projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 A weak 2-opening should not be 6-10 points in 4th seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 P-1♠1NT*should be limited to 8(9) points, I just saw the robot do this with a prime 11 count and 3-card support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 1NT with a 5cM and 3 weak twos is quite normal nowadays, but support doubles are not common at all and that a 2NT opening can't contain a 5cM is just weird. My only Terence Reese book is a 1973 twilight affair which already reluctantly recognised weak twos and even the possibility of strong NT... FWIW it does explictly suggest 2NT with a 5M332 (no obvious alternative, given his distaste for 1 in a suit with such strong hands) but does not contemplate 1NT with a 5cM (to be honest, he does not explictly exclude it, but no examples have 5cM and it seems clear this is not even on his radar). I wonder if the 2NT thing is some SEF relic (when I briefly played with Argine, I found it often reverted to SEF despite agreements). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepossum Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Me too, but also the 2/1 Bot :) :) Also the configure your card bot :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Are we allowed to know how Argine was ported? It would seem not :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilowsky Posted November 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 It would seem not :( Perhaps just visiting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescetom Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 Perhaps just visiting? In an ideal world, one could visit any bridge platform with any robot as partner...but that requires vision, collaboration, implementation and other difficult stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 11, 2022 Report Share Posted November 11, 2022 Overall I think the Acol bots bid better than the 2/1 bots. I haven't seen any of the unlimited but de facto non-forcing bids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 29, 2022 Report Share Posted November 29, 2022 1♠-2♣2♦-2♥3♣-3♠* 3♠ shows exactly two spades. This can't be right since 3♠ on the previous round would have been non-forcing (a bit dubious but OK many Acol pairs play it that way) so there is no way to show a slamish hand with 3-card support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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