What do you bid, what else do you consider ?

[Gilithin]

This is the whole point, 3♥ is the bid not suggested by the hesitation, but this is what the hesitator (with a heap) wants you to bid.

 

For the rest of your comment above depends whether X is good hand or good hearts (3433 was what I was thinking of).

If East has a true heap then they do not have a bridge reason for the hesitation. This is the basis for playing Reverse Weasel rather than the more easily penalised Weasel.

[AL78]

This is the whole point, 3♥ is the bid not suggested by the hesitation, but this is what the hesitator (with a heap) wants you to bid.

 

This is all too deep for me. I have no idea why partner hesitated, but it is irrelevant as I automatically ignore such hesitations anyway so I just bid 3♥. If playing 5CM I would have supported hearts with a cue bid first time round.

[Cyberyeti]

This is all too deep for me. I have no idea why partner hesitated, but it is irrelevant as I automatically ignore such hesitations anyway so I just bid 3♥. If playing 5CM I would have supported hearts with a cue bid first time round.

 

I felt this was a clear 4♥ bid but 3♥ WAS a logical alternative, hence without the hesitation I would bid 4♥, with it I'd bid 3♥ as I wouldn't keep 4♥ if it was right. Partner could easily have had x, AKQxx, xxxx, QJx for example.

[pescetom]

I felt this was a clear 4♥ bid but 3♥ WAS a logical alternative, hence without the hesitation I would bid 4♥, with it I'd bid 3♥ as I wouldn't keep 4♥ if it was right. Partner could easily have had x, AKQxx, xxxx, QJx for example.

And with the hesitation, you know 3♥ is probably going to be raised to 4♥ anyway, so why take risks with a Taliban TD.

That was my point above, as TD I have no choice but to accept 3♥ but it doesn't necessarily smell of roses.

[Cyberyeti]

And with the hesitation, you know 3♡ is probably going to be raised to 4♡ anyway, so why take risks with a Taliban TD.

That was my point above, as TD I have no choice but to accept 3♡ but it doesn't necessarily smell of roses.

 

As TD you don't HAVE to accept 3♥, if you can find no decent bridge reason for the hesitation, and clearly (as it did) it could work in your favour and you could know that it might, then you can be ruled against. On this particular hand you could argue there was a bridge reason with hearts that good you might consider doubling 2♥.

[pescetom]

As TD you don't HAVE to accept 3♥, if you can find no decent bridge reason for the hesitation, and clearly (as it did) it could work in your favour and you could know that it might, then you can be ruled against. On this particular hand you could argue there was a bridge reason with hearts that good you might consider doubling 2♥.

I can hit East's hesitation with a small PP if I consider it unduly slow play and with a bigger one if I retain it was intended to convey UI. But if West previously underbid and Pass is not an LA, then 3♥ is the book bid for West to avoid being ruled against, even if East is likely to raise it to game. Even if I poll and find that everyone thinks like mikeh that 4♥ is the only LA (and it's not going to happen) then it's hard to pin anything on 3♥, especially by someone who already misbid in the same hand.

[Gilithin]

On this particular hand you could argue there was a bridge reason with hearts that good you might consider doubling 2♥.

Is that really what Opener's double means in East Anglia?

[pescetom]

Having seen the comments above I would still vote for 3♥ as the bid not implied by the hesitation

 

So would I too.

That's why as TD I would not be in a hurry to poll in the first place, to avoid hanging mikeh but not SB.

I concede that this is at the limit of TD exercising judgement.

[Cyberyeti]

Is that really what Opener's double means in East Anglia?

 

I think you'll find a lot of people will never have discussed it, but I think it's a default unalerted meaning. East Anglia not entirely relevant, opps' (not from East Angia) auction

[Gilithin]

I think you'll find a lot of people will never have discussed it, but I think it's a default unalerted meaning. East Anglia not entirely relevant, opps' (not from East Angia) auction

I am somewhat surprised. I can imagine playing the double as 3 spades, or as a SNT double, but playing it to show really good hearts and any strength (penalty?) would never occur to me as a viable option.

[Cyberyeti]

I am somewhat surprised. I can imagine playing the double as 3 spades, or as a SNT double, but playing it to show really good hearts and any strength (penalty?) would never occur to me as a viable option.

 

It's not something you would agree specifically, but I've known a number of partnerships have a blanket agreement that "if a bid is undiscussed, default to the unalerted meaning", and a double of a suit bid artificially shows the suit.

[blackshoe]

Not sure why there should be only one unalerted meaning. Maybe in England, but elsewhere?

[Cyberyeti]

Not sure why there should be only one unalerted meaning. Maybe in England, but elsewhere?

 

In England double of a suit bid naturally is takeout, double of an artificial suit bid is pens below 3N.

[pescetom]

Not sure why there should be only one unalerted meaning. Maybe in England, but elsewhere?

 

In many countries (following WBF principles) only very unusual meanings of double require alert without screens.

Things like takeout or penalty (even at low level) do not.

[thepossum]

I think people are overthinking and my answer would have been along the track of what many people have said

Remind me to avoid East Anglia in future

 

But my confidence has been reinforced by the number of people who went for the simpler more obvious bidding options :)

 

But for the record my bid would have been 3H - not sure if we get to 4H - I too would have considered the 3D cue

 

As for hesitation I regularly hesitate while thinking or not knowing what to do - there is no questionnable information issue there is there?

[mikeh]

I can hit East's hesitation with a small PP if I consider it unduly slow play and with a bigger one if I retain it was intended to convey UI. But if West previously underbid and Pass is not an LA, then 3♥ is the book bid for West to avoid being ruled against, even if East is likely to raise it to game. Even if I poll and find that everyone thinks like mikeh that 4♥ is the only LA (and it's not going to happen) then it's hard to pin anything on 3♥, especially by someone who already misbid in the same hand.

Note that I did qualify my view that 4H is the only logical call by noting that, to paraphrase, the ability/willingness to see that one’s hand is now worth 4H absent any BIT is inconsistent with being the type of player who doubles 2D.

 

As I understand it, when assessing LA’s, the TD is to consider the approximate skill/knowledge level of the player. Don’t blame a weak player for not being an expert but the flip side is that don’t credit a weak player with expert level thinking either. Here, I strongly suspect that the great majority of players, capable of the misbid earlier, would at least consider 3H absent a BIT

 

I think most good players would upgrade the hand, fearing that opener won’t bid game over 3H on many hands where it’s very good. But such players would not be in this position, since they’d bid 3D the round before, so I guess I’m arguing about the number of angels dancing on that pin rather than about reality. Oh well.

[michel444]

[hv=pc=n&w=sq952hj83d5cak752&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1h2dd2h(Good%20diamond%20raise)p3d]133|200[/hv]

 

What do you bid ? do you think about doing anything else ?

 

As far as I remember, (one of my ops had this problem) 5 card majors weak no trump, unsure what they do with 5M332.

3♥

[michel444]

3♥

reading the post again

the double on 2 ♦ is normaly a negative double

without intervetion the hand is worth a raise to 2 heart even if partner open a 4 cards Major

the intervention make the 2 ♥ raise weaker

IMHO biding 3D over 2♦ will required a stronger hand

and double folowed by support even stronger

[Gilithin]

IMHO biding 3D over 2♦ will required a stronger hand

Michel, you are consistently evaluating hands according to their Work Count and undervaluing distribution. After a 5cM, this hand is easily worth a 3♦ cue raise and is not even close to a minimum, hence the majority opinion here that the hand would be worth 4♥ without the BIT.