Returning Player: 2/1 or SAYC?

[Stephen Tu]

2-way NMF and XYNT are two names for the same thing

 

I don't know about that ... I think there were versions of 2-way NMF where 2c was *not* a puppet (just a non-GF ask). XYNT and 2-way puppet checkback are close to identical but there are like a bunch of different variations (I know of 4!) of how to sign off in 3 clubs after say 1c-1s-1nt, which also affect meanings of direct 2nt and delayed 2nt. Be sure you & partner are using the same version!

 

[pescetom]

I thought XYZ *was* a new NMF. That's what I meant with my question.

Well not exactly. It replaces NMF and is similar to 2 way NMF but not the same (edit: I see Stephen explained). And it also replaces Checkback or whatever you would play there.

[MikeJ]

https://www.jeff-goldsmith.com/system/twowaycheckback.html

Although the suit symbol links are currently screwed up, you can probably manage to figure it out. Can look at raw page source, or download web page locally and put some suit symbol images in the right place.

 

Thank you for the link!

 

And I did just as you suggested and downloaded the code, mined his site for the suit symbol images and downloaded them to my drive and the page now displays perfectly, which is very helpful. :)

[blackshoe]

There are, to my knowledge, four artificial continuations after 1x-1y-1NT which are oriented around finding a major suit fit. In order of usefulness (my opinion, though I stole it from George Rosenkranz):

 

1. New Minor Forcing

2. Checkback Stayman

3. What has come to be called by some XYNT and by others XYZ

4. Two Way Checkback Stayman

 

#1 is least useful, #4 is most useful, though I think many would argue that 3 and 4 should be reversed. IAC, the difference between the two is that in XYNT 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦, while in Two Way Checkback Stayman it simply asks about opener's major suit holdings.

 

On the names, I may be wrong about the history, but I *think* that the way it happened was that someone looked at XYZ auctions where Z is a suit at the one level, and came up with the idea that 2♣ could be a puppet to 2♦ with invitational hands or wanting to bail out in diamonds, while 2♦ would be game forcing. Then somebody said "why not apply the same principle to auctions where Z is 1NT, since Two Way Checkback Stayman has too many nuances?" At first they called it "Two Way Checkback", then some started calling it XYNT, and some just went with XYZ on the grounds that "we're just adding one family of auctions to the existing XYZ structure". <shrug> I don't think it matters much, except that I'd much rather not call #3 "Two Way Checkback" since that conflicts with a pre-existing different convention with that name.

 

Whether you call it XYNT or XYZ, it differs from XYZ where Z is a suit in that in XYNT, 2♣ is a puppet to 2♦ (partner is expected to bid 2♦, period) while if Z is a suit, 2♣ is a marionette, so opener can bid something other than 2♦ with a suitable hand.

 

Heh. I fell asleep with this still in draft, and just woke up and discovered it pretty much has already been said, but I figure I'll just post it anyway. :-)

[pescetom]

There are two more twists to XYZ that I think give it a clear edge, although neither is completely standard yet.

 

1. Rather than putting all game force hands through 2D and maintaining 2NT and jump rebid as natural invites which are nuanced compared to their 2C equivalents, the tendency is to put *all* invites through 2C which frees up jump rebids as low level game forces fixing trumps

 

 

2. This also frees up 2NT as a Puppet to 3C, pass with weak clubs or show game forcing two suits, mainly 5-5.

 

The combination of the two is powerful, in particular 2D is now nuanced as a game force in search of direction, with first priority to show 3 card support.