correct bidding

[maris oren]

[hv=pc=n&s=s83haq8dk974c9862&w=saj9h3dj32caqjt74&n=s65hkjt962daqt85c&e=skqt742h754d6ck53&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2sp4sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

East west made the contract+2 What is the correct bidding?

[pilowsky]

What was wrong with 2♠ - 4♠?

[AL78]

Bidding looks fine to me. It goes off on double dummy defence which is not easy to find at the table. It is difficult for North to come in over 4♠ with a mediocre two suiter and no knowledge of the fantastic double fits both ways.

[mw64ahw]

Not enough for 2NT and you may do yourself out of the part score with 4♠ when opponents may not compete opposite your point count. I prefer 3♠, but seeing the hands North should have a say regardless of level. On the board West made a good call on this occasion.

[maris oren]

What was wrong with 2♠ - 4♠?

 

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

[paulg]

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

As best defence will hold you to nine tricks after a club lead you have overachieved on the board and you should be happy.

 

When I saw the original post, I thought you were sitting North and wondered if you should bid and, if so, what with. There are two guiding principles: 6-5 come alive; and the five level belongs to the opponents. Choose which works!

[Stephen Tu]

North has to come in IMO with 6-5 at equal vul. Doesn't need much from partner to have shot at making or good sac. Would be unlucky IMO to be phantom or going for too many.

[Cyberyeti]

As best defence will hold you to nine tricks after a club lead you have overachieved on the board and you should be happy.

 

When I saw the original post, I thought you were sitting North and wondered if you should bid and, if so, what with. There are two guiding principles: 6-5 come alive; and the five level belongs to the opponents. Choose which works!

 

Yes as 4♠ goes off on best defence and ops can make 5 of either red suit 4♠+2 is a huge result. The only question is whether N should bid 4N.

[LBengtsson]

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

 

As the cards lie you could have gone down :) A good North/South might have found the correct defense after a ♣ lead.

[Tramticket]

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

 

You have a very pure double fit, allowing you to take a lot of tricks on a combined 21 high-card points. Note that your opponents also have a great double fit and can take 11 tricks in hearts. It is very difficult to diagnose that the fit is this good - maybe a 2NT inquiry will get a response of 3C (maximum + a feature in clubs) and this would certainly be good news. But I doubt that your opponents would be silent over 2NT - indeed, I am surprised that North didn't bid (4NT maybe) over 4S.

[johnu]

East west made the contract+2 What is the correct bidding?

Beside the possible club ruffs, you are off 2 aces. Why would you want to be in 6? Just because the opponents don't take 2 aces against a 4 level contract, the same thing can't be said about a small slam. And how would the bidding go if somebody bids Blackwood and finds out 2 aces are missing?

[pilowsky]

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

 

You've discovered a key flaw in Bridge - bad judgement often gets rewarded..

[mikeh]

As the cards lie you could have gone down :) A good North/South might have found the correct defense after a ♣ lead.

A good NS pair wouldn’t EVER be defending 4S. My biggest failing is that I’m occasionally too timid as a bidder, but even on a bad day, I’d never pass 4S as North . It’s the easiest 4N I’ve seen in many years,I’m tending to convert 5C to 5D, to show the red suits.

[paulg]

A good North/South might have found the correct defense after a ♣ lead.

I think most pairs would find the winning defence if they found a club lead, but I think it could be quite challenging on a slightly different auction and layout. Actually I think it is quite interesting on the auction 3♠-4♠.

 

After ruffing the club, do you cash the ♦A and hope to get a useful signal or switch to a heart hoping for a second ruff? If you switch to a heart, how do ask for a club ruff and how do you cash two diamonds when you are out of trumps?

[helene_t]

When I saw the original post, I thought you were sitting North and wondered if you should bid and, if so, what with. There are two guiding principles: 6-5 come alive; and the five level belongs to the opponents. Choose which works!

6-5 come alive because opps haven't bid at the 5-level yet.

[paulg]

6-5 come alive because opps haven't bid at the 5-level yet.

I think it's right to bid at any vulnerability except unfavourable but it is difficult when you could easily not find your best fit.

[LBengtsson]

A good NS pair wouldn’t EVER be defending 4S. My biggest failing is that I’m occasionally too timid as a bidder, but even on a bad day, I’d never pass 4S as North . It’s the easiest 4N I’ve seen in many years,I’m tending to convert 5C to 5D, to show the red suits.

 

Agree entirely mikeh. I located the hand in the records and GIB was North :) Even though most of us on the forums realise that 4NT is pick a suit and two-suited after this auction, many non-expert and advanced players may not know the distributional value of 6/5 hands and their trick-taking power, and may not know 4NT as a conventional bid.

 

It reassures me that the robot is still less than advanced level for these auctions. That gives us humans hope that it will be many years until bridge robots get the better of us :)

[steve2005]

nothing wrong with the bid except we made 2 more. Same with other competitors

This is resulting!

[mikeh]

Agree entirely mikeh. I located the hand in the records and GIB was North :) Even though most of us on the forums realise that 4NT is pick a suit and two-suited after this auction, many non-expert and advanced players may not know the distributional value of 6/5 hands and their trick-taking power, and may not know 4NT as a conventional bid.

 

It reassures me that the robot is still less than advanced level for these auctions. That gives us humans hope that it will be many years until bridge robots get the better of us :)

I hope GIB doesn’t represent the state of the art in computer bridge. In fact, it is pretty clear that it doesn’t. Why BBO has never seriously upgraded the robots to a better method puzzles me. Sure, doing so would cost money and maybe they don’t see any monetary value sufficient to offset the cost.

 

I think the main reason bridge will remain resistant to computerized play is that bridge is a niche and dying pastime, so simply won’t be on the radar of most capable of doing the work. I hope I’m wrong.

[mikeh]

I think it's right to bid at any vulnerability except unfavourable but it is difficult when you could easily not find your best fit.

Imo that’s very misguided. Red v white is, at imps anyway, when it is most imperative to bid 4N

 

Matchpoints is a different game. At imps, -500 against their 420/450 is close to a push and well worth the risk, but at mps it’s a terrible result…not much different than going for 1100 if the field passes over 4S. But I think it’s right at any scoring, any vulnerability.

 

Bidding has several ways to win. It may be your hand. It may be a good save…even at adverse….and it may push them to 5S when 4S is the limit.

 

It is vanishingly unlikely on the hand that 4S is going down when we make nothing,so I’m not worried about that.of course we could get killed at the 5-level, but in a strong field, i’d expect to salvage a few matchpoints anyway.

[johnu]

Why BBO has never seriously upgraded the robots to a better method puzzles me. Sure, doing so would cost money and maybe they don’t see any monetary value sufficient to offset the cost.

BBO merged with Funbridge several years ago, and Funbridge has a robot called Argine. Argine is newer than GIB, but I've never played with Argine so I don't know if it is "better" than GIB. IIRC some people have claimed Argine is better, but YMMV.

 

Who knows if Argine is still under development, clearly nobody is really working on improving GIB these days. In any case, integrating a different robot into BBO may be a major undertaking which may tie BBO into continuing to use GIB even if there are better alternatives.

[pescetom]

BBO merged with Funbridge several years ago, and Funbridge has a robot called Argine. Argine is newer than GIB, but I've never played with Argine so I don't know if it is "better" than GIB. IIRC some people have claimed Argine is better, but YMMV.

 

Who knows if Argine is still under development, clearly nobody is really working on improving GIB these days. In any case, integrating a different robot into BBO may be a major undertaking which may tie BBO into continuing to use GIB even if there are better alternatives.

 

I've played with Argine in the past and can confirm that it is better, in particular if you stick to SEF (it can bid outside that to some extent).

It's not my understanding that 52 Entertainment (the holding of BBO, Funbridge etc) is developing Argine.

In 2020 they also acquired BridgeBaron which is accredited with a better robot than Argine, but again nothing has happened.