Precision: 1C Transfer positive responses

[enigmisto]

I'm reading Precision Today, and it has a chapter in the back recommending transfer positive responses, and that they should be on over interference, but it is scant on the details.

 

Are transfer positive responses only on for first bid by weaker hand, or all bids by weaker hand?

Over interference, how do you handle cue bids? Do you transfer "around" the cue bid, or transfer to the cue bid suit?

How do transfers interact with the unusual-over-unusual convention they recommend for dealing with 1NT overcalls showing both minors?

[helene_t]

Over 1NT, you probably play:

2♣: both major

2♦: hearts

2♥: spades

 

As for cuebids, I wonder if it would make sense to be able to show the suit opps bid - psyches against strong club are quite common.

[mycroft]

I played this, and our agreements were:

 

Over double: p = 0-4, XX = 5-7, 1♦ = hearts (thanks for giving us an entire level!) and systems on otherwise.

Over 1♦ same.

Over 1M: p and X were "weak or trap" and "GF, no suitable call", and suit bids were transfers. I think we did transfer "through" the suit in 1♣-(1♥)-2♦ for spades. Obviously there are other sane agreements (like starting the transfers with double, but then the "random GF" (which usually boiled down to "I would have bid 1NT, but I don't have a stopper") needs a place.

Over 1NT+: different systems, no transfers.

 

Obviously, if 1♥ showed "hearts or takeout of hearts", or "spades or minors" or whatever weird, we needed agreements on that as well.

 

In the grand scheme of things, getting an agreement both players got the same at the table was key; perfecting it from there was well down the list of things to work on.

[enigmisto]

So what happens if the initial transfer is rejected by the 1C opener? I assume that when opener bids his suit, there's no need for transfer, since he's the stronger hand. So what happens on responder's second bid? Is their second bid a transfer or not? It seems like if one bidder is not transferring and the other is transferring, it could create big skips in the bidding.

[PrecisionL]

If the 1♣ opener doesn't accept the transfer, then some play that a new suit by opener is a support asking bid in that suit. Various ways to play responder's responses to a support asking bid. See the original Precision Books for support asking bid responses (Precision Today doesn't discuss a support asking bid in opener' suit.)

Edit: pg. 174 recommends that the acceptance of the positive transfer response to 1

♣

be Beta (asking for number of As + Ks starting with 0-2 for step one).

Opener can follow up with a TAB or CAB in his slam exploration.

This is a simple approach that is highly effective.

[straube]

When not in competition....

 

Many use 1-under bids but they aren't necessarily transfers. For example Meckwell uses 1C-1H as spades or 11-13 balanced but 1C-1H, 1S is opener showing hearts. Another example from Meckwell would be 1C-2C, 2D where clubs shows diamonds but diamonds shows hearts.

 

Some others play that opener's acceptance of the "transfer" says something about the suit in question, either tolerance for the suit or not-fitting the suit with nothing better to say. If the bid shows tolerance for the suit, acceptance of the transfer could ask suit quality or a second suit.

 

Most relayers use transfer bids but responder's suit will often not be 5-cds in length or even their longest suit and opener's customary acceptance merely asks responder to complete pattern.

 

When in competition...

 

Many use transfers at especially the 2-level to show a semipositive or better hand, typically 6+ hcps. Awm and Sieong have posted extensively how they use this. If I remember right, acceptance of the transfer is nf and tends not to show fit. Lacking a better rebid, opener may even be singleton. If instead opener rebids a higher ranking suit at the 2-level it isn't forcing but opener's suit rebids at the 3-level would be game forcing. Opener's rebid of 2N is Lebensohl and asks responder with a minimum hand to rebid 3C so that opener may 1) sign off in a suit ranking lower than responder's suit or 2) game force and show doubleton support and a fairly balanced hand or 3) GF and show a higher ranking 4-cd suit along the way to a likely 3N. An example of this last would be 1C (1H) 2C P 2N P 3C P 3S showing big balanced with four spades.

 

You should dig up old threads by Adam on this.

[awm]

When in competition...

 

Many use transfers at especially the 2-level to show a semipositive or better hand, typically 6+ hcps. Awm and Sieong have posted extensively how they use this. If I remember right, acceptance of the transfer is nf and tends not to show fit. Lacking a better rebid, opener may even be singleton. If instead opener rebids a higher ranking suit at the 2-level it isn't forcing but opener's suit rebids at the 3-level would be game forcing. Opener's rebid of 2N is Lebensohl and asks responder with a minimum hand to rebid 3C so that opener may 1) sign off in a suit ranking lower than responder's suit or 2) game force and show doubleton support and a fairly balanced hand or 3) GF and show a higher ranking 4-cd suit along the way to a likely 3N. An example of this last would be 1C (1H) 2C P 2N P 3C P 3S showing big balanced with four spades.

 

You should dig up old threads by Adam on this.

 

Our rules after two-level transfers in competition:

 

1. If opener cannot force to game, he selects one of:

-- Accept the transfer (often doubleton, occasionally singleton, rarely three unless very minimum)

-- Bid two of a higher suit; forcing one round; responder's NF continuations over this are 2NT, rebid the suit he transferred to, or raise opener

-- Bid 2NT (lebensohl) followed by passing 3C or bidding a suit lower than the one partner transferred to

2. If opener can force to game, he selects one of:

-- Bid two of a higher suit (forcing one round) followed by a cuebid at next turn

-- Jump in a new suit (shows a stronger / longer suit than the above)

-- Jump accept the transfer (shows three-plus support and extras)

-- 2NT followed by raising responder's suit (usually doubleton, unclear direction)

-- 2NT followed by a suit higher than the one transferred to (flexible hand, still normally five cards in the suit but less committal than jump-to-three).

 

Note that responder doesn't have to accept the lebensohl puppet with GF values and will do something else (typically cue).

[straube]

Adam, can you clear up for us what opener's immediate cue bid and delayed cue bid (after 2N) mean?

 

For example...1C (2C) 2D* P 3C vs 1C (2D) 2H* P 2N P 3C* P 3D ?

 

Also, after an acceptance of a transfer, are all of responder's rebids GF or can he rebid 2N or raise suit as game tries? Personally, I would think that further tries after opener shows (usually) two-cd support with a minimum are pretty narrow targets (consequently would prefer any further action to be GF) but I've had hardly any experience using this.

[enigmisto]

The main thing I'm still not understanding is whether transfers are only applicable to responder's first bid, or whether they continue to apply on subsequent bids.

[straube]

The main thing I'm still not understanding is whether transfers are only applicable to responder's first bid, or whether they continue to apply on subsequent bids.

 

Relayers often try to have responder "transfer" twice, but if we're talking about a transfer Precision, I've only seen transfers used for responder's first bid.

[akwoo]

The main thing I'm still not understanding is whether transfers are only applicable to responder's first bid, or whether they continue to apply on subsequent bids.

 

In the version of transfer precision I'm playing, opener's second bid after a positive response is almost always an asking bid of some kind, so responder's second bid is always an artificial response. The exception is if opener bids 2N, after which responder's bids are 3C=minor slam interest, 3D=both majors, 3H=spades, 3S=hearts (That's not a good use for 3D, but everything else wrongsides more contracts. (Well 3N=both majors might be better, but artificial 3N is just asking for a disaster.))

[mycroft]

What AkWoo is describing is the style in Precision Today in the section on transfer positives. "Accepting" the transfer asks about the trump length and quality (almost always it's an actual accept, but sometimes opener thinks they can keep control of the auction and cares more about your KQ than what they can get from introducing their suit right now). Bidding their own suit instead asks for support and control count. Bidding NT leads to "NT structure", which yeah, could easily include transfers again (but almost always only "re-transfer") (note; others might play 1NT as an asking bid as well. I don't). Once you're in an asking bid auction, you basically end up staying in it 80% of the time, so your question doesn't really apply.

 

My (really!) old notes, which may confuse more than help, are here.