responding to overcall

[AL78]

IMP pairs NS vuln.

 

[hv=pc=n&e=st654hq72da2ca964&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp]133|200[/hv]

 

Your call?

[smerriman]

Is there an alternative to 2♠?

[AL78]

Is there an alternative to 2♠?

 

Pass or 3♣.

[helene_t]

Pass or 3♣.

I don't think that pass has any merit at this vulnerability.

 

3♣ has the advantage that it prevents opener from doubling 2♠ (or bidding 2NT or 3♣, but those calls aren't used that often).

 

Most likely they won't be competing over 3♣ anyway so 2♠ should work fine.

 

And 3♣ is misleading, it shows a weaker hand.

[LBengtsson]

Pass or 3♣.

 

Pass is not helping partner, 3♣ sounds pre-emptive and defensive. 2♠ shows good ♣ limit raise. It also allows partner to explore a 5♣ or 3NT contract with the right hand.

[AL78]

I agree, I didn't bid either of those alternatives I suggested. I decided it was worth a good raise and bid 2♠. The auction continues:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp2sp2np]133|100[/hv]

 

Now what?

[apollo1201]

Sign me in for 2S, given we are a passed hand, partner won’t expect more. Passing can’t be serious, and 3C is probably a slight underbid.

 

Partner might even be pleasantly surprised with 2 A, the 4th trump, a side Q and no wasted S points, although if we are to play at NTs, from my hand, the SQ might be better.

[helene_t]

I agree, I didn't bid either of those alternatives I suggested. I decided it was worth a good raise and bid 2♠. The auction continues:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp2sp2np]133|100[/hv]

 

Now what?

This is annoying, I have pretty much what I have shown so I would prefer partner just to make a decision.

 

Maybe they are fishing for a side suit that can give additional tricks and then I should sign off because I don't have that. But I think my hand is a bid better than it might have been: the clubs are likely to run, and I have entries for any finesses that might be needed. And I certainly couldn't have much more as a passed hand.

 

So 3NT.

[DavidKok]

We're already up to 8 tricks with partner's 6 clubs, the ace of diamond and a likely spade, and that's assuming partner overcalled on just ♠Axx, ♥xx, ♦xx, ♣Kxxxxx. I think partner owes us another king, and I'll bid 3NT.

[AL78]

I bid 3NT and watched her go down. Going by the responses so far it is safe to assume that this one wasn't due to overbidding on my part, so when I next see her we will have a discussion about what constitutes a reasonable 2 level overcall.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=saqj82hk643dq3cjt&w=sk3haj9dkt5cq8753&n=s97ht85dj98764ck4&e=st654hq72da2ca962&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp2sp2np3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Only three imps out thankfully.

 

Here are the auctions on the other three tables:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp3cppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1sdp2c2h3cppp]133|100[/hv]

 

They all made 10 tricks.

[DavidKok]

2♣ is a terrible bid. Yet again your partner is to blame. It is very often a bad idea to overcall 2m on a 5-card suit, although of course exceptions exist. I think, given the auctions you have shown, it would be wise to agree to always require a 6-card suit for such a bid.

[eagles123]

well even with partner's insane 2C bid, 3N is still only one off, which clearly shows you bid the hand correctly imo. I don't think there's much point having conversations about what constitutes a two level overcall with this partner, either play with them and don't take it to seriously, or find another partner. Seriously, they are absolutely hopeless as demonstrated by the vast majority of your posts when they have done some crazed action that's got a dreadful board for you, and that won't change any time soon. Just play purely for fun and don't worry about the result, or get a partner where you're not on a blind guess as to what insanity they're doing on just about every board!!

[helene_t]

The 2♣ overcall is a bit pointless. It's the kind of bids that I would make myself in a heterogenous field, hoping opps to have a misunderstanding about whether they play negative freebids or not. But it doesn't achieve anything against opps who know their system, and the problem is that next time she has a real 2♣ overcall you won't find the sacrifice or preemptive raise of clubs because you are used to this kind of overcalls.

 

Dbl would be OK if she can't stomach to pass.

 

The 2NT bid is also not a good idea. The club suit probably won't run and she has only one spade stopper, so for 3NT to make she needs a lot of help. So she should sign off in 3♣.

[AL78]

well even with partner's insane 2C bid, 3N is still only one off, which clearly shows you bid the hand correctly imo. I don't think there's much point having conversations about what constitutes a two level overcall with this partner, either play with them and don't take it to seriously, or find another partner. Seriously, they are absolutely hopeless as demonstrated by the vast majority of your posts when they have done some crazed action that's got a dreadful board for you, and that won't change any time soon. Just play purely for fun and don't worry about the result, or get a partner where you're not on a blind guess as to what insanity they're doing on just about every board!!

 

This was with a different partner to the other posts I have made, but I see what you mean, I should change mentality towards doing my best, but not expecting to be competitive. This one is more open to discussion on bidding and system modification in general.

[Douglas43]

I would have bid the same as you. The problem for me is the lack of suit quality in the overcall, and a poor decision to bid 2NT with no source of tricks

[DavidKok]

My apologies for criticising your partner based on the previous posts, I shouldn't have assumed it was the same person. If this partner is open to more discussion and agreements, requiring a 6-card suit for an overcall like this might be a solid idea.

 

I like the 2NT bid. East asked for a spade stop, and West has one. What more do you want? If East has a minimum they can bid 3♣ after and West can pass.

 

I think doubling 1♠ with the West hand is also a bad idea. Passing is clear, unless you have an explicit agreement to play minimum off-shape doubles (not my personal preference).

[apollo1201]

This was with a different partner to the other posts I have made

I had guessed that, given she hadn’t blamed you for raising!

 

And yes, the 2C overcall is beyond disgusting.

[eagles123]

My apologies for criticising your partner based on the previous posts, I shouldn't have assumed it was the same person. If this partner is open to more discussion and agreements, requiring a 6-card suit for an overcall like this might be a solid idea.

 

I like the 2NT bid. East asked for a spade stop, and West has one. What more do you want? If East has a minimum they can bid 3♣ after and West can pass.

 

I think doubling 1♠ with the West hand is also a bad idea. Passing is clear, unless you have an explicit agreement to play minimum off-shape doubles (not my personal preference).

 

can't disagree more re 2N, partner is a passed hand do you really expect to make game here?

[DavidKok]

No, but I would never have bid 2♣. I'm saying that on the auction, ♠Kx is more than enough to bid 2NT, even with a minimum. The fact that our hand is impossible is something I prefer not to condition on, it leads to awkward conclusions.

[smerriman]

It must be frustrating when you appear to be the only person at your entire club who is capable of making an normal bid :/ I almost had sympathy for the last one's double until their partner showed a 0 count and they proceeded to raise..

[AL78]

No, but I would never have bid 2♣. I'm saying that on the auction, ♠Kx is more than enough to bid 2NT, even with a minimum. The fact that our hand is impossible is something I prefer not to condition on, it leads to awkward conclusions.

 

Interesting you say 2NT is fine with a stop even on a minimum overcall. I thought you had to have something extra to bid NT, and a minimum overcall goes back to their suit.

[DavidKok]

That's one way to play it, for sure. I prefer that 2NT does not necessarily show extras. The point is that if 3NT is not in the picture you really aren't going anywhere on this auction, so partner will 'never' pull a 3♣ signoff. Therefore if 3NT might be on we can't bid 3♣. I think that with a spade stop and a (presumably) running minor suit there are many passed hands where 9 tricks are plausible even opposite a passed hand, and 2NT lets partner in on my intentions. And if partner really did upgrade some nasty 8-bagger into a 2♠ bid they can pull the brakes, no harm no foul.

[bluenikki]

I bid 3NT and watched her go down. Going by the responses so far it is safe to assume that this one wasn't due to overbidding on my part, so when I next see her we will have a discussion about what constitutes a reasonable 2 level overcall.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=saqj82hk643dq3cjt&w=sk3haj9dkt5cq8753&n=s97ht85dj98764ck4&e=st654hq72da2ca962&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp2sp2np3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Only three imps out thankfully.

 

Here are the auctions on the other three tables:

 

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1s2cp3cppp]133|100[/hv]

[hv=d=e&v=n&b=2&a=p1sdp2c2h3cppp]133|100[/hv]

 

They all made 10 tricks.

 

 

Why would anything but double occur to anyone? Are they afraid of a 3-card reply? Are they afraid that partner will be furious at having to play a 4-3 fit?

 

In the auction given after the double, the 2♣ advance is an abomination. Is there a secret agreement never to jump in a minor? Which would account for the absurd 3♣ rebid.

 

Carl

[akwoo]

I agree the 2♣ advance is ridiculous, but I don't think the 3♣ rebid is - even if partner has 0 hcp, given you're nonvulnerable, you're protected by the law of total tricks. Yes some partnerships play this 3♣ bid as strong, but many play it (after the intervening bid by opener) as purely competitive.

[bluenikki]

I agree the 2♣ advance is ridiculous, but I don't think the 3♣ rebid is - even if partner has 0 hcp, given you're nonvulnerable, you're protected by the law of total tricks. Yes some partnerships play this 3♣ bid as strong, but many play it (after the intervening bid by opener) as purely competitive.

If the 3♣ bid does not show game interest, then what do you do with 16-17? If your answer to that is cue bid, then what do you do with 19?

 

Really, contemporary defensive bidding methods make no allowance for the intervenor's having a really good hand.

 

Seems like inviting frequent psychic openings.