Echognome Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 [hv=d=e&v=n&s=skqj7652hj3dc10963]133|100|Scoring: IMP(2♥) - ?[/hv] RHO opens a weak 2 hearts. Do you obey the adage and offer up a green card or do you introduce your spade suit? If so, at what level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Pass. Sometimes you simply don't have a bid. Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Pass. Sometimes you simply don't have a bid. Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand. WinstonM 2♠. The hand has enormous playing strengthIf I pass I'll NEVER hear the end of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 pass. will have a chance later (presumably) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickf Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 This is not a tough decision. You have a 7-4 with a good main suit. What are you waiting for? To balance after LHO raises to 4H passed back to you? nickfsydney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Pass. Sometimes you simply don't have a bid. Anything I bid distorts my hand and surely this auction won't die; when I later introduce the spades partner will have a better picture of my hand. WinstonM 2♠. The hand has enormous playing strengthIf I pass I'll NEVER hear the end of it... completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Yep, 2S looks mandetory. I'll pull partners first penalty double to spades at the cheapest level, showing a hand that is offensive only. After that I'll respect his decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Yep, 2S looks mandetory. I'll pull partners first penalty double to spades at the cheapest level, showing a hand that is offensive only. After that I'll respect his decision[hv=d=e&v=n&n=s10hakxxda10xxcj8xx&w=sxxhxdkj8xxxcakqx&e=saxxhqxxxxxdq9xcx&s=skqjxxxxhjxdc109xx]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Good premonition there Mark. (2♥) - 2♠ - (3♦) - X(P) - 3♠ - (4♣) - X(4♦) - P - (P) - XAll Pass Spade was lead, Ace taken. 3 rounds of clubs (pitching spades), then club ruff and heart back. Couldn't touch it on defense. I was a bit unhappy that partner continued to double at teams when I warned that I had no defense. He was unhappy that I didn't bid 3♠ preemptive. I hadn't thought about it, but wondered if that made more sense. Hence posed it here. By the way, I think West found about as good a dummy as she could have hoped for given the bidding! Whenever I do that I get wasted values and a threadbare dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 pass. will have a chance later (presumably) Pass too ! Sorry but I don't see the enormous playing stength with 7 direct losers ! (even if it is 7-4) This hand is a preempt and will lead partner to error if I take action now. Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 He was unhappy that I didn't bid 3♠ preemptive. I hadn't thought about it, but wondered if that made more sense. 3♠ is traditionally used as a STRONG jump overcallThe bid is not preemptive without special agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Terminology issue: you can't preempt a preempt. This is because RHO's hand is well described so the opps don't don't care if you take away bidding space. This is true even 3♠ is agreed as weaker than 2♠ (which would be an odd agreement, btw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Bidding is ridicoulous on my partnership, and if I bid I would had scored -800 instead of -510. Pre vs pre simply has no point, they have come by themselves to an inaccurate position, why should you get their trouble into your partnership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If I switch the West and North hands, opponents should bid to 4♥ and we should be in 4♠. How are we to get there after (2♥) - P - (4♥) - P - (P) - ? Am I to stick my neck on the block now and bid 4♠? Yes I know they have a fit, but my LHO can just be bidding 4♥ on high card strength. If 3NT comes back around to me, am I bidding now? I agree that there is considerable risk in bidding, but there is also risk in passing. Simon always talks about making the bid "of lesser risk." So saying it's always right to do one thing or another is just not true. We ask these questions to find out what's best on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 The only acceptable bid in my partnership regarding those kind of hands is 4♠ because 2 and 3♠ show stonger hands ! But this time I'm a bit too weak to go with 4♠ vulnerable. I will decide what to do when it will be back in 4♥ if partner has passed but the vulnerability does not encourage any action. Sometimes prempts work !! :D Alain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 If I switch the West and North hands, opponents should bid to 4♥ and we should be in 4♠. How are we to get there after (2♥) - P - (4♥) - P - (P) - ? Am I to stick my neck on the block now and bid 4♠? Passing then bidding 4♠ isn't any more dangerous than bidding 4♠ straight away, there's still only one hand trying to make the decision, and if they use a forcing enquiry of some sort then you can get a 3♠ bid in. The auction I fear is 2♥-P-P-P, particularly as my preference is not to reduce requirements greatly for balancing actions over preempts. I would have bid it the same way you did, and I disagree with your pards 2nd double - he shouldn't be expecting both hearts to cash on this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 pass, and only yourself to blame for the poor result. This is one reason why you pass these hands, because bridge is a partnership game. Partner expects you to have values for your 2S bid, not a preempt. You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S. Similar situation to RHO opens 1H and you hold x AQJ10xxx xx xxx, what do you bid? You PASS, because dbl is a takeout dbl not a penalty dbl. Can't have it both ways. 3S is an stronger hand than 2S and 4S is even stronger. 3S might be AKQxxx x xx AKxx and 4S might be AKQJxxx x xx AKx South has 7hcp and rho has maybe 8. that is 15, so other 2 have 25. Somebody is bidding. And even if it went all pass, you aren't missing anything. If it went 2H p 4H p p, now you can bid 4S and partner will know EXACTLY what you have. After 2H 4S p, with x AKxx Axxx Jxxx, I would expect North to bid 6S, or at least q-bid 5D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Shocking, I overcalled 2S and partner ended up Xing them, I couldn't have imagined that... When you overcall at the 2 level with ZERO defense thats the kind of thing that happens. If you pass and bid later it shows this kind of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 pass, and only yourself to blame for the poor result. This is one reason why you pass these hands, because bridge is a partnership game. Partner expects you to have values for your 2S bid, not a preempt. You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S. Similar situation to RHO opens 1H and you hold x AQJ10xxx xx xxx, what do you bid? You PASS, because dbl is a takeout dbl not a penalty dbl. Can't have it both ways. 3S is an stronger hand than 2S and 4S is even stronger. 3S might be AKQxxx x xx AKxx and 4S might be AKQJxxx x xx AKx South has 7hcp and rho has maybe 8. that is 15, so other 2 have 25. Somebody is bidding. And even if it went all pass, you aren't missing anything. If it went 2H p 4H p p, now you can bid 4S and partner will know EXACTLY what you have. After 2H 4S p, with x AKxx Axxx Jxxx, I would expect North to bid 6S, or at least q-bid 5D. Well said So Tired and welcome to the forum. Not sure If I am brave enough to bid 4spades vul vs nv but.....agree with your point. Great old Kinks song, I'm So Tired of waiting for youuuuuuu, for yoouuuuuuuuu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Hi, I would pass, but Marshall Miles, a bigger authority than me,recommends 2S, saying, that the playing power is sufficientenough.I normally follow his advice, but sometimes, it is hard to change habit. Marlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 You can't have it both ways. What do you do with AKxxx xx xx AKxx? over 2H. You bid 2S.But you wouldn't pull 3♦X to 3♠ on that hand. I'm not sure whether I'd bid 2♠ or not - I don't like either action! Certainly if I didn't and 4♥ was bid on my left passed back to me I'd venture 4♠, and I think if I do bid 2♠ then the continuations you made are reasonable. Edit: to be fair at the table I'd have a hard time not bidding 2♠ with a hand as good as this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Shocking, I overcalled 2S and partner ended up Xing them, I couldn't have imagined that... When you overcall at the 2 level with ZERO defense thats the kind of thing that happens. If you pass and bid later it shows this kind of hand. There may not be a later. What hand do you expect for pulling the double of 3♦ to 3♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 After 2♠, what is partner going to do if my LHO makes the only reasonable call which is pass. What is he trying to accomplish with 3♦? Anyway, it seems like north is going to be pretty aggresive after a 2S overcall. On a good day you might get him to stop in 3♠ but he might push to 3N which you'll then have to correct to 4♠, -1. That being said, I'm split right down the middle on this one. I've tried hanging out with this sort of hand and backing in once they've reached game and even though the odds dictated partner should have a modicum of support I always seem to get singletons and voids in dummy. Hanging out puts no pressure on them. Conversely, bidding immediately can distort the hand and also lead to problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 but he might push to 3N which you'll then have to correct to 4♠, -1. ♣AKQ, ♣ ruff, ♠A, down two... In spades by south, this defense is automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Shocking, I overcalled 2S and partner ended up Xing them, I couldn't have imagined that... When you overcall at the 2 level with ZERO defense thats the kind of thing that happens. If you pass and bid later it shows this kind of hand. There may not be a later. What hand do you expect for pulling the double of 3♦ to 3♠? how can there not be another bid? I don't think it will come back to me at 5H, and i really doubt it will go float. Pulling the X of 3D does not say "I was out to lunch when i bid 2S." As Rubens put it in some MSC, you cannot OVERRIDE your previous bidding, just REFINE it. I would pull a X of 3D with a very distributional NORMAL overcall, such as AQxxxxx xxx --- KQx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I would pull a X of 3D with a very distributional NORMAL overcall, such as AQxxxxx xxx --- KQx I am not fully sure, but maybe I would pass with this as well :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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