What next?

[pilowsky]

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Now what?[/hv]

 

[DavidKok]

Stop jumping on slam auctions. Take back your 4NT and bid 2♣.

[apollo1201]

The question should be what before rather than what next.

 

Knowing aces is not what this flat 16 called for. Indeed slam is not a certainty when partner opens.

 

Partner could have anything from QJxxx xxx AJx Ax to QJxxxxx (yes, 7) x Ax AKx.

 

You preempted yourself into making the last guess.

 

Making a lower bid would have let partner describe their hand a bit more (range of points, secondary suits or shortages…) and you’d be much more at ease to place the contract.

 

On a bad day you even lose 3C on the opening when partner turns out with xxx C and all their points in the other suits.

[johnu]

7NT. There is a bonus for a grand slam.

[P_Marlowe]

6S

 

Obviously, I would prefer to have bid slower, but you got the best possible response,

you have all key cards.

I dont think you should pull out 5NT, at one point in time opener will take you serious.

[mw64ahw]

The hand is too weak for me to even consider an immediate Ace ask.

16hcp opposite a possible 10/11hcp, no ♣ control, a MLT of 6.5; the hand is flat, but may work opposite some shape.

I assume 4NT is RKC, but the naivety of the bid feels more like Blackwood from someone who can't count.

Having made the bid why chicken out now?

Lets ask for Kings and see if a missing K is shown.

If you're in luck the K♣ may be shown, followed by K♦ and wait for 6♠.or a NT bid.

 

I have a limit plus Hxx+ 2NT to ask opener for their strength. This then gives a clearer picture as to whether to cue bid prior to showing/asking for Keycards.

[nige1]

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pilowsky 'Now what?'

You don't seem to trust your own judgement :( You might be right :) Now, I rank

-- 5N = RKC. We have all the key-cards. You choose, partner. But partner is likey to show side kings (of doubtful usefulness)

-- 6♠ = NAT. IMO, Quite enough :)

[/hv]

[AL78]

If you have to ask what to do after Blackwood, it means you shouldn't have used Blackwood.

 

Bid 6♠ and hope, and in future go slowly to find out more about partner's hand before deciding whether or not to look for slam. It usually take at least two bids for opener to nail their hand down to a narrow margin.

[mikeh]

The hand is too weak for me to even consider an immediate Ace ask.

16hcp opposite a possible 10/11hcp, no ♣ control, a MLT of 6.5; the hand is flat, but may work opposite some shape.

I assume 4NT is RKC, but the naivety of the bid feels more like Blackwood from someone who can't count.

Having made the bid why chicken out now?

Lets ask for Kings and see if a missing K is shown.

If you're in luck the K♣ may be shown, followed by K♦ and wait for 6♠.or a NT bid.

 

I have a limit plus Hxx+ 2NT to ask opener for their strength. This then gives a clearer picture as to whether to cue bid prior to showing/asking for Keycards.

One doesn’t need artificial bids here. 2C is more than adequate.

 

Then one shows spade support. Then one listens to what partner tells us.

 

If partner shows zero interest, we play 4S

 

If he shows some interest, we reciprocate via a cuebid

 

There will be few auctions where this hand ever uses keycard. Not no auctions, just few auctions

 

Why?

 

Because with this shape, in most auctions we will never be able to know what to do over at least one possible response to keycard.

 

We could have 13 tricks, but that depends on his Queens, jacks, and shape.

 

Give him, say, QJxxx Kxx Axx Ax and how many tricks do you expect to make? Yet you have all the keycards and two side kings. You may be down in 5S with normal splits but the club King over the Queen.

 

The fact that 5S may be too high emphasizes what an error it is to use keycard.

 

Heck, Qxxxx Kxx Axx AK (which most couldn’t have since this would be, for many, a 1N opener, has all the keycards and all the kings yet can’t make 13 tricks and needs 3-2 trump to even make small slam.

 

I think the OP plays pretty much exclusively with robots. That is not a way to learn how to actually play this game since robots have asinine rules for bidding, can’t draw inferences, and completely lack nuance. But that’s no excuse for not even trying to bid properly. 4N is the typical grotesque bid hauled out by people who think a flat 16 is a slam force opposite an opening bid….because they don’t think and/or they’ve never played with even a semi-competent partner. Bridge is a partnership game and probably more in bidding than in defence (declarer play is the exception to that mantra)

[pilowsky]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak6ha93dk76cq863&w=sj93hkjt85dqj83c7&n=sq8752hq42dat4ca4&e=st4h76d952ckjt952&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1sp4np5sp6sppp]399|300[/hv]

The board comes from a large free tourney (matchpoints) on BBO yesterday (rotated so that I'm sitting South).

All the "seats" were occupied by humans.

I was playing with a regular partner - we play a butchered version of so-called "Standard" with very few gadgets.

I would have preferred 2♣ game-forcing, but that isn't what we play.

 

At the time that I bid 4NT I was in two minds.

My holding did not pass the test for a certain slam if my partner had a minimal holding - which he did.

FWIW, I just gave the hand to GIB (basic I think) on a bidding table and the bidding went - 1♠-2♣-2♠-3♠-4♠---

My over-reliance on Aces and Q of Trumps is now appropriately attenuated.

 

I just put the North/South holding into playbridge.com and generated 64 hands with a random holding for EW: not a single slam amongst them - many only making 3S.

 

Here is a summary of the Traveller - none of the pairs included a robot.

[mw64ahw]

One doesn't need artificial bids here. 2C is more than adequate.

2NT for me showing showing good support, an 8 card fit and a level of strength is clear, direct communication for the partnership while asking partner to reciprocate by confirming their strength. 2♣ in contrast shows strength and information that may be useful to the opponents, but not support, and introduces an unnecessary and artificial delay in reaching agreement. It also encourages further unnecessary disclosure by partner.

 

4NT by OP is artificial, confirms an 8 card fit and confers a particular strength, albeit for me, incorrectly on this occasion. 4NT is an example of evolution in the game as pairs looked to improve their communication. I am happy to keep trying to evolve.

 

P.S. Given North's hand below the strength conveyed would have stopped in 4♠ using my artificial 2NT. A standard 2♣ bid should stop in 4♠, but I suspect South still tries for the slam without an additional artificial bid.

[mw64ahw]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak6ha93dk76cq863&w=sj93hkjt85dqj83c7&n=sq8752hq42dat4ca4&e=st4h76d952ckjt952&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1sp4np5sp6sppp]399|300[/hv]

The board comes from a large free tourney (matchpoints) on BBO yesterday (rotated so that I'm sitting South).

All the "seats" were occupied by humans.

I was playing with a regular partner - we play a butchered version of so-called "Standard" with very few gadgets.

I would have preferred 2♣ game-forcing, but that isn't what we play.

 

At the time that I bid 4NT I was in two minds.

My holding did not pass the test for a certain slam if my partner had a minimal holding - which he did.

FWIW, I just gave the hand to GIB (basic I think) on a bidding table and the bidding went - 1♠-2♣-2♠-3♠-4♠---

My over-reliance on Aces and Q of Trumps is now appropriately attenuated.

 

I just put the North/South holding into playbridge.com and generated 64 hands with a random holding for EW: not a single slam amongst them - many only making 3S.

 

Here is a summary of the Traveller - none of the pairs included a robot.

Unlucky - A touch more shape from North and you may have been OK

 

What does an auction after 2♣ look like? Do you still try for the slam? If so I suspect you end up in the same place.

[pilowsky]

much the same as the robot auction I guess.

[ThomasRush]

If you want to improve your bridge, note these precepts of advanced and expert players:

 

1) Don't use keycard unless you are sure that you have first- or second-round control in every suit. If you break this rule, you won't know (when missing one keycard) if you have one quick loser or two.

 

2) 1x - 4NT is straight 0/4, 1, 2, 3 Blackwood. If you want to ask for keycards, *set trump first*. This came up in a tournament in Gatlinburg just before Covid, and won a team match for us.

 

3) (a bonus, just for the heck of it) If your bidding system doesn't have a way to set trump (especially in partner's opened 5-card major(!!!)), then fix that first, and worry about blackwood and all later.

 

4) Blackwood (RKC, Gerber, etc.) is used by experts to *stay out of slam* when keycards are missing. It is NEVER used as a tool to get to slam. That is, the expert pair knows that they have the values and/or tricks for a slam before asking for aces. They use the ace ask as a last-minute sanity check to ensure they aren't off two key cards.

 

Thus, in direct answer to your question "Now what?"

1. Now agree on how to set spades as trump below game

2. Now agree to not think of slam unless partner shows about an ace over a minimum opener (Rodwell's description of "serious 3NT" may help you)

3. Now agree you won't use any ace-asking bid without ensuring you or partner has 1st- or 2nd-round control of every suit (established by cue-bidding, splinter bids, etc.).