How good is this?

[HardVector]

[hv=pc=n&w=shaqj862dak962c42&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1hp1sp3d]133|200[/hv]

[smerriman]

If partner passes 2♦, they'll probably be something like a minimum 5134 shape, in which case I'm happy to play there.

[Winstonm]

This hand has potential but needs the right cards opposite - against a bad fit it loses a lot of its value.

[HardVector]

KTxxx-xx-Qxxx-xx makes 4h with 50% chance of 5h.

[Evies Dad]

Assuming you don't have 2 heart losers. That isn't negligible.

[Winstonm]

KTxxx-xx-Qxxx-xx makes 4h with 50% chance of 5h.

Try making 3N with KJxxxx, x, xx, KQxx or Qxxx, x, xxx, KJxxx, The problem with this hand is that you cannot compel partner to hold 2 or more hearts, and unless that is the case the hand is not as good as it appears.

 

If the auction starts, 1H-1N

2D-2H

Now you can bid 4H with some confidence. What you can never really be confident of is forcing partner into 3NT, which is what a 3D second bid may accomplish.

[Cyberyeti]

We play 2♦ as "forcing if you had a response" and 2N as unbal GF meaning that 3♦ is this sort of hand (2 good 5+ suits, not an especially good hand) with this at the top end NF.

[mw64ahw]

As a jump shift in standard the hcp count is too weak with partner expecting ~3hcp more.

I guess this will lead to 3NT failures.

However I voted about right as this describes what I use the bid for i.e. 55 and intermediate with responder expected to pick a suit or move ahead with a Limit+ strength hand.

With stronger hands I take a slower/lower approach with my bid being 2NT for 4+ ♦s/3523 allowing a 3♣ shape request.

[P_Marlowe]

About right.

 

Now, 2D is an underbid, 3D is an overbid.

The spade void is an minus.

 

But you are 6-5, and 3D will make sure you play game, and wont go plus

in a silly part score with lots of overtricks.

 

And I wont end up in 3NT, if partner bids 3NT, I am bidding 4D.

[HardVector]

Why does everyone think that 3n will end the auction?

[Winstonm]

Why does everyone think that 3n will end the auction?

 

The best scenario is for partner to hold at least 2H. If I pull 3NT it will be into 4H as I don't want to play in 5D if partner has a weakish hand with only 3 diamonds.

 

What is your suggestion if responder's hand doesn't fit with opener?

[smerriman]

What is your suggestion if responder's hand doesn't fit with opener?

I'll add an extra question to this; what is the OP's suggestion if responder's hand *does* fit?

 

That is, with the original hand the OP proposed (KTxxx-xx-Qxxx-xx) you'll get a diamond raise over 3♦, but the OP mentioned wanting to be in 4♥. Are you correcting 4♦ to 4♥, ostensibly showing a strong hand in hearts that may well have faked a jump shift into a 3 card diamond suit?

 

If the plan is to bid 4♥ in all circumstances, perhaps 4♥ instead of showing diamonds at all would have worked better.

[Gilithin]

I'll add an extra question to this; what is the OP's suggestion if responder's hand *does* fit?

 

That is, with the original hand the OP proposed (KTxxx-xx-Qxxx-xx) you'll get a diamond raise over 3♦, but the OP mentioned wanting to be in 4♥. Are you correcting 4♦ to 4♥, ostensibly showing a strong hand in hearts that may well have faked a jump shift into a 3 card diamond suit?

 

If the plan is to bid 4♥ in all circumstances, perhaps 4♥ instead of showing diamonds at all would have worked better.

If the auction starts, 1♥ - 1♠ -- 2♦ - 3♦, a 3♥ continuation seems to do the necessary. If Responder has 2 hearts here they should now show them.

[Winstonm]

If the auction starts, 1♥ - 1♠ -- 2♦ - 3♦, a 3♥ continuation seems to do the necessary. If Responder has 2 hearts here they should now show them.

I think the question concerned what to do over 1H-1S-3D-4D. Personally, I think with Kxxx, xx, Qxxx, xxx responder should still take the false preference to 3H as the jump shift second suit is always suspect.

 

My take on this hand is that it is a very fine hand as long as there is a fit in hearts - and if there is a fit in hearts you can find that our most of the time by bidding 2D.

[mikeh]

It’s easier to accelerate after an initial conservative sequence. It’s virtually impossible to decelerate (effectively) after an initial aggressive sequence

 

Will 2D (my choice) miss some games? Obviously, although partner will in practice rarely pass when game is good. For example, with xx and Kxx in the reds he’s bidding 2H even with a terrible hand. About the only time he’s passing 2D is with at least two more diamonds than hearts.

 

Meanwhile, after 3D, you’re going to bid some horrible games and horrible slams.

 

Looking at this hand and choosing to bid 3D is focusing on not missing games while ignoring the downsides.

 

Besides, we have only 14 hcp and a lot of shape. Both factors, combined with the silent opponents, reduce tge already low chances of 2D both ending the auction and missing game

 

Give him, say, KQJxx x xxx Qxxx

 

Over 3D he bids 3S and over 4D what? Does anyone think we have a plus score coming? It’s not as if he can pass. We might have x AKQxxx AKQxx x, lol.

 

Meanwhile, I and the other 2D bidders score up a plus. Thanks, overbidders😀

[Gilithin]

I think the question concerned what to do over 1H-1S-3D-4D. Personally, I think with Kxxx, xx, Qxxx, xxx responder should still take the false preference to 3H as the jump shift second suit is always suspect.

 

My take on this hand is that it is a very fine hand as long as there is a fit in hearts - and if there is a fit in hearts you can find that our most of the time by bidding 2D.

After 1♥ - 1♠ -- 3♦, 3♥ is not really false preference so much as a grope. You have to bid this with a range of hands that are unsure of the final destination. If people are seriously considering bidding 4♦ with your example hand, they deserve to find themselves in a hopeless slam 100% of the time.

[LBengtsson]

My simple way to look at this is 6/5 shape with all honours in long suit. 2♦ is major underbid. 3♦ is very minor overbid.

 

You can think a million different hands partner can have where slam/game makes or does not make, but not bidding your own hand strength is acting as a coward. if you think you are overbidding hand with 3♦, then you could also bid 3♥ as invitation as alternative though that is not a good bid as you lose ♦ suit as possible place to play.

 

So I bid 3♦ 100% of the time with this hand, even with ♠ void/stiff/misfit.

[mw64ahw]

One I had last night with freakier distribution

2♦/2♥/3♦/4♦?[hv=pc=n&s=shaj9854dkqj653c2&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1h1s1np?]133|200[/hv]

[DavidKok]

A suspicious auction. What is the distribution of spades around the table? North is likely to only have 4 or 5 spades, but East can't raise. I guess 0-6-5-2 is possible, though I'm guessing 0-7-4-2 or even 0-6-4-3 is more likely. So why aren't EW bidding more?

I don't know what to do here. Normally I'd say something like "By bidding 4♦ I am showing my extreme shape, and partner will know what to do if the opponents compete further". But I think they might not compete further, and partner is poised to give a penalty double to their 4♠. So we might just be sticking our neck out for no reason. Also, absent other agreements, 3♦ might show a hand with more HCP and prompt partner to bid 3NT and then what will we do? So I guess it's 2♦ for me, intending to rebid diamonds. But maybe a direct 4♦ is better, but I fear we might have already crossed the par.

[ThomasRush]

A suspicious auction. What is the distribution of spades around the table? North is likely to only have 4 or 5 spades, but East can't raise. I guess 0-6-5-2 is possible, though I'm guessing 0-7-4-2 or even 0-6-4-3 is more likely. So why aren't EW bidding more?

I don't know what to do here. Normally I'd say something like "By bidding 4♦ I am showing my extreme shape, and partner will know what to do if the opponents compete further". But I think they might not compete further, and partner is poised to give a penalty double to their 4♠. So we might just be sticking our neck out for no reason. Also, absent other agreements, 3♦ might show a hand with more HCP and prompt partner to bid 3NT and then what will we do? So I guess it's 2♦ for me, intending to rebid diamonds. But maybe a direct 4♦ is better, but I fear we might have already crossed the par.

 

This is the longest answer to a question not asked that I've seen in a long time. Are you sure you're replying to the right original post?

[sfi]

This is the longest answer to a question not asked that I've seen in a long time. Are you sure you're replying to the right original post?

He's clearly replying to the post directly above his.

[mw64ahw]

This is the longest answer to a question not asked that I've seen in a long time. Are you sure you're replying to the right original post?

I always appreciate a comment from David

 

The hand itself was fairly similar, weaker hcp wise, but a touch more shapely.

The poll is a subject that has been touched on a few times recently - do you ignore a weaker than proscribed hcp count and bid the playing strength, with the risk of going down in 3NT or underbid and potentially miss game.

My approach is to have bids that can show either, but others have questioned whether this is playable? Personally I find my approach removes potential misstatement of strength (hcp or playing)

 

In this case with a MLT of 4.5, 9.5 playing tricks and a 1NT response by partner I judged a 4♦ bid to be reasonable leading to Pass/Raise/Correct/SI and made on this occasion.

However, I guess that whether opener's 2nd bid is 2/3/4♦ doesn't make much difference to the end result with this hand, although you may end up with competition with a 2♦ bid.

[hv=pc=n&s=shaj9854dkqj653c2&w=sajt63h7da4ca9743&n=sk87542hkqdt982ck&e=sq9ht632d7cqjt865&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1h1s1np4dp4h]399|300[/hv]