Amusing freak

[Cyberyeti]

You hold 10 solid spades and ♣Qxx

 

What do you open ?

 

I'll give the other hand later, it's a hand where you could legitimately get a very stupid result.

[AL78]

You hold 10 solid spades and ♣Qxx

 

What do you open ?

 

I'll give the other hand later, it's a hand where you could legitimately get a very stupid result.

 

4♣ if playing Namyats, otherwise 1♠. I can see a case for opening 1♣, hoping partner can support, then bid 5NT GSF, but that won't work as opps will be bidding one of the red suits to a high level quickly.

[LBengtsson]

[hv=pc=n&s=sakqjt98765hdcq32]133|100[/hv]

 

1♠. opening 2♣ will make partner think you have a hand with more defensive strength. it is very not likely that you will buy contract in 1♠.

 

opening 6♠ will give opponents less room to maneuver but is a total guess :)

 

bridge diagram has dropped the 10th ♠ ♠AKQJ1098765

[Cyberyeti]

4♣ if playing Namyats, otherwise 1♠. I can see a case for opening 1♣, hoping partner can support, then bid 5NT GSF, but that won't work as opps will be bidding one of the red suits to a high level quickly.

 

Do you mean 4♣ or 4♦, I thought 4♣ showed hearts, that will guarantee you a monumentally stupid result

[AL78]

Do you mean 4♣ or 4♦, I thought 4♣ showed hearts, that will guarantee you a monumentally stupid result

 

Yes sorry I meant 4♦.

[mycroft]

And unfortunately, 4♦ showing spades will also get you a stupid result when partner plays you for about two tricks fewer than you have and stops in 4. But it might be the best chance to stop the opponents from finding their good result.

 

Really old-fashioned, but 4NT "specific Ace ask" might get you what you need to know.

[Cyberyeti]

Really old-fashioned, but 4NT "specific Ace ask" might get you what you need to know.

 

Could easily get you to 6♠ on a finesse, and also gives you a problem if partner shows 2.

[smerriman]

Could easily get you to 6♠ on a finesse, and also gives you a problem if partner shows 2.

Are either of those a problem? The former is more than 50% since partner might have another club honor. The latter is only bad if they're the wrong two aces AND partner doesn't have the king AND opps find the right lead.

 

The downside is more that there's a decent chance we play 5♠ with 3 losers..

[Cyberyeti]

Are either of those a problem? The former is more than 50% since partner might have another club honor. The latter is only bad if they're the wrong two aces AND partner doesn't have the king AND opps find the right lead.

 

The downside is more that there's a decent chance we play 5♠ with 3 losers..

 

If partner has the wrong 2 aces, how are you getting to dummy if they lead a trump ? Yes they might give it away on the lead.

 

The actual issue was different, what do you respond to 4N with 3 aces ?

 

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7♠ is cold, but 7N-10 is in the frame here in some auctions

[smerriman]

If partner has the wrong 2 aces, how are you getting to dummy if they lead a trump ? Yes they might give it away on the lead.

That's what I was saying - if he has 2 you still make if one ace is the club, or partner has K♣, or they find the wrong lead - all three combined looks like good odds for a slam compared to simply stopping in 4 and I can't see a more scientific way of figuring out what partner has.

 

But yes, three aces does pose a little problem :) I guess technically 6♦ would 3 show aces after which you can bid 7♠, but it's such a rare convention you'd both have to be on the same page.

[mikeh]

If partner has the wrong 2 aces, how are you getting to dummy if they lead a trump ? Yes they might give it away on the lead.

 

The actual issue was different, what do you respond to 4N with 3 aces ?

 

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7♠ is cold, but 7N-10 is in the frame here in some auctions

If he has that hand, he should bid 7S.

 

 

Btw, I’d never open 4N. We are then forced to at least 5S and I have no reason to think that’s making

 

I’ll bid 1S.I may never be able to show this hand….’may never’ being an understatement, but maybe the other three players will tell me what I need to know.

[Cyberyeti]

If he has that hand, he should bid 7S.

 

 

Btw, I’d never open 4N. We are then forced to at least 5S and I have no reason to think that’s making

 

I’ll bid 1S.I may never be able to show this hand….’may never’ being an understatement, but maybe the other three players will tell me what I need to know.

 

If it's pairs, partner will have Kx/x in two of the side suits instead of what he actually has and 7N will be solid.

 

Yup, to me it's a 1♠ opener, what do you bid over pard's 2♦ ? I can bid a GF not necessarily balanced 2N, not sure what you do if you don't have that if you're not playing 2/1.

[mikeh]

If it's pairs, partner will have Kx/x in two of the side suits instead of what he actually has and 7N will be solid.

 

Yup, to me it's a 1♠ opener, what do you bid over pard's 2♦ ? I can bid a GF not necessarily balanced 2N, not sure what you do if you don't have that.

For me, 2D is gf. I have an easy 3S over that….my spades will offer a play for no losers opposite a stiff, at a minimum, and may play opposite a void.

 

In essence, it demands cue-bidding.

 

With no ace, he bids 3N to slow me down. Otherwise cuebids up the line. If he bids 4C, I’m definitely slamming….though my continuations are going to be difficult for him to read

 

I very rarely cue shortness in partners main suit as my first cue…such a cue should, imo, tell him that KQJxx or AQJxx will provide 5 winners.

 

But here, this is such a freak that I think .

 

I’ll bid keycard now, knowing 6 is cold, just in case. 4S ‘should’ be forcing, but I’m not risking it. I’m missing grand if he has Void Axx KQxxxx AKxx or the like but I’m reaching grand if he has void Axx Axxxxx Axxx

[Cyberyeti]

For me, 2D is gf. I have an easy 3S over that….my spades will offer a play for no losers opposite a stiff, at a minimum, and may play opposite a void.

 

In essence, it demands cue-bidding.

 

With no ace, he bids 3N to slow me down. Otherwise cuebids up the line. If he bids 4C, I’m definitely slamming….though my continuations are going to be difficult for him to read

 

I very rarely cue shortness in partners main suit as my first cue…such a cue should, imo, tell him that KQJxx or AQJxx will provide 5 winners.

 

But here, this is such a freak that I think .

 

I’ll bid keycard now, knowing 6 is cold, just in case. 4S ‘should’ be forcing, but I’m not risking it. I’m missing grand if he has Void Axx KQxxxx AKxx or the like but I’m reaching grand if he has void Axx Axxxxx Axxx

 

We crossed in the posting, I saw that 2/1 would sort this but in standard it's a nightmare.

 

I strongly suspect while I would open 1♠, my pard might open 2♣ and we'd have an easy time 2♣-3♦-4♠-4N-5♠-5N-7S where 4♠ is a solid suit, 5N is "we have control of all suits, tell me more" 7♠ is solid from the spade hand with only one possible downside (somebody else put the hand up but you do actually have a low spade) which is that partner is 1570 or similar and he doesn't have the highest missing trump and they lead one (and not the low one from 2).

[mikeh]

We crossed in the posting, I saw that 2/1 would sort this but in standard it's a nightmare.

 

I strongly suspect while I would open 1♠, my pard might open 2♣ and we'd have an easy time 2♣-3♦-4♠-4N-5♠-5N-7S where 4♠ is a solid suit, 5N is "we have control of all suits, tell me more" 7♠ is solid from the spade hand with only one possible downside (somebody else put the hand up but you do actually have a low spade) which is that partner is 1570 or similar and he doesn't have the highest missing trump and they lead one (and not the low one from 2).

I have a rule about 2C opening hands. The opponents should not be able to bid and make a grand slam with no freakish shape.

[Cyberyeti]

I have a rule about 2C opening hands. The opponents should not be able to bid and make a grand slam with no freakish shape.

 

Yeah, I open them much more rarely than pard does, but when he opens one and I don't it tends to work:

 

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Was another, I held

 

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And we had the unusual auction 2♣-3♦-4♠-7N where every bid was a jump all in different denominations, unfortunately they didn't lead a spade where you have to discard the ♥A to make it.

[mikl_plkcc]

You hold 10 solid spades and ♣Qxx

 

What do you open ?

 

I'll give the other hand later, it's a hand where you could legitimately get a very stupid result.

I open 2♣, planning to rebid 3♠. (in my system, a jump rebid open 2♣ opening means a freak opener)

[mycroft]

Yeah, 4NT looking for the club ace (5♣ is zero, right? so clubs is the "highest" ace (5NT/6C)?) might be taking too much room.

 

2♣ CAB gets you the answer you want, though, with lots of room.

 

But there's a reason these bids have gone out of fashion, so lump me in with the 1♠ bidders (my agreements on 2♣ are similar to Mike's, and I don't feel like Alerting all my 2♣ openers, we Alert too many weird things already).

[Gilithin]

Yeah, 4NT looking for the club ace (5♣ is zero, right? so clubs is the "highest" ace (5NT/6C)?) might be taking too much room.

Traditionally 5♣ is zero, 5NT is any 2 (or more) and 6♣ shows ♣A. I think it is better to play 5NT as ♣A, 6♣ as any 2 aces, 6♦-6♠ as the 3 other aces and 6NT as ♠A + ♥A + ♦A. Anything sensible works on this hand but as Mike points out there are plenty of other occasions where anything but 1♠ is likely to be much less successful. Even if you open a Namyats-style 3NT or 4♦, which void are you showing when partner asks? Whatever you do is going to be a distortion of some type because bidding systems are just not designed to show 10-0-0-3 hands.

[pescetom]

Traditionally 5♣ is zero, 5NT is any 2 (or more) and 6♣ shows ♣A. I think it is better to play 5NT as ♣A, 6♣ as any 2 aces, 6♦-6♠ as the 3 other aces and 6NT as ♠A + ♥A + ♦A.

We play 5♣ as either zero aces or ♣A (5♦ asks for disambiguation): this frees up 5NT onwards for 2 ace replies and allows opener to use 5NT as a second enquiry over any 1 ace response.

Not that the convention gets much use.

[mycroft]

I don't play this, and never would (it's straight-ace blackwood for me by preference, not that it ever comes up either), but I can't see a hand that would ever want to hear about "2 (unknown) aces" committing to slam (okay, pass 5NT maybe). If I wanted count, I can bid something and get count next round. I want a specific ace, two doesn't help me unless it's the specific one (like the OP hand). Am I totally off?

[pescetom]

I don't play this, and never would (it's straight-ace blackwood for me by preference, not that it ever comes up either), but I can't see a hand that would ever want to hear about "2 (unknown) aces" committing to slam (okay, pass 5NT maybe). If I wanted count, I can bid something and get count next round. I want a specific ace, two doesn't help me unless it's the specific one (like the OP hand). Am I totally off?

 

She might have the two remaining aces even if you only need one of them (Murphy says it will not be the lower), or there might be a risk that opps can bid too high to allow ace asking... but I agree it is not that likely, it's a way like any other to use the higher level responses. The reason I like to keep all 1 ace responses below 5NT is to allow opener to make a second ask, for specific king or whatever.