1D-(p)-1M -(p) - 2C Forcing

[inquiry]

There is nothing new about opener’s 2Club rebid being forcing on this auction. This has been part of the Kaplan – Sheinwold system for more than 30 years. Despite this, some people still find it “impossible” that a 1D-1M-2C rebid by opener can be forcing! It is all a matter of style. I am very fond of the KS method of 1D-1M-3C being a weak two suiter.

 

In the original KS system, the 2C rebid promised both suits and was one round force, and at least in the revised systems (see for instance, the excellent PDF file on KS at http://www.bridgeguys.com/pdf/KaplanSheinwold.pdf ) they use lebehnsol responses after this non-reverse “reverse”. The driving force behind the 2♣ rebid being forcing in KS is the following… 1) they open weak 1NT, 2) their 1NT rebid after 1m-1M, shows a strong NT type hand, and 3) A jump to 3♣ by opener sows a weak minor two suiter.

 

Ok, once you accept that 2♣ rebid CAN be forcing in some logical systems, even if not playing gazilla or the like, the question becomes how should the follow up be constructed? Mishovnbg and I have extended the concept the forcing 2♣ rebid on this auction, even though we play a “strong” 1NT opening bid. We agree with KS that a jump rebid of 3♣ on this auction is “weak minor two suiter”. However, unlike KS, our 2♣ rebid does not promise a club suit. The type of hands it can include are:

• strong two suiters limited only by the inability to open misho’s transfer preempt that shows really strong two suiter (see http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=60190 )
  
• Balanced 17 to 19 hcp
  
• Strong one suited hands with just diamonds. Note, since this new minor includes balanced big hands, we use 2NT after the major suit response to show all strong hands with four card support. So this new minor DENIES more than 3 card support
  
• good 14+ hcp and three card support for the partners major (distribution most often 1-3-4-5, or 1-3-3-6 with poor six card minor and lots of controls in short suit).
  

Also, while we characterize this new minor by opener as forcing, in fact we play it can be passed with some exceptional hands. The reason is we open hands with an ACOL two bid in either minor with multi 2♦, thus our strong one suited minor hand is limited by the lack of this opening, and we open our really strong minor two suited hands with Misho’s transfer preempt, so strong two suiters opener can have are also limited. Of course to pass this 2♣ bid responder needs an exceptionally poor hand with a real club suit of his own. So, in effect, the lack of using one of these other opening bids has limited how strong our forcing 2♣ rebid can be, so making this only “quasi” forcing. Of course, if you do not play the Misho transfer preempts, then your 2♣ rebid could be made with REALLY very strong two suiters, in which case the 2♣ would be fully forcing.

 

One kind of hand were this system is really success has proven to be hands where opener has exactly 17 hcp balanced (we use 14-16 NT range) and responder is 4-2-1-6 and weak. The bidding goes at most tables, either 1NT all pass, or 1NT with some kind of stayman and then a signoff in 3C (if available when no spade fit is found). Our auction goes, 1D – 1S – 2C – all pass. Finding such a 6-2 or 6-3 club fit on these hands and stopping rationally in 2♣ has been remarkably successful. It also can be useful if opener has 18 or 19, as in standard it is impossible with the type responder hand mentioned above to get out of openers 2NT rebid and into 3♣. The identical auction if the minors were reversed would be 1C-1S-2D-pass as the same limits and same rules apply to the true minor reverse.

 

After this non-reverse, reverse, if responder doesn’t pass (pass is indeed extremely rare), his options are:

• 2♦ – can be pseudo preference, not forcing.
  
• rebid his major – weak with a five card +suit (if spades, exactly five). Opener is expected to pass with 17-19 balanced, and the weaker three card raise hands. A high card/control rich super fit (with 3 card support of course), can raise the major.
  
• Other major – artificial force, seeking more info from opener
  
• 2NT – transfer to 3♣ as either signoff in clubs, or game invite in some other suit, with a stopper in the other major.
  
• 3C = transfer to 3♦, shows better hand than 2♦, is either attempt to signoff or slam try, but remember the rule that this signoff attempt is stronger than 2♦s.
  
• 3♦ = transfer to 3♥, GF.
  
• 3♥ = transfer to spades, GF,
  
• 3NT (rare) shows exactly four in first major, and no more than 12 hcp. In general with such hands bid other major to try to get your partner to declarer Notrump (make this bid when you believe your side would be best suited to be declarer).
  

 

Note, on auctions like, 1D-1S-2C-2H-2NT- 3D or 3C by responder is 100% forcing. Responder could have bid 2D or 3C to show weak hand with diamonds, and would have bid 2NT himself to get out in clubs over 2C (or used the clever pass of the “forcing” 2♣ rebid as discussed above).

 

A further thing to consider is that since 1♦-1M-2♣ can be passed with long clubs and desperately weak hands, the 2NT transfer to signoff in clubs (or invite to game in another suit) show not only long clubs and weak hand, but also willingness to play in 3♣ opposite the “expected” 17-19 balanced hand. This can lead to some magic fit 3NT/5♣ contracts on exceptionally shallow values. This is similar to the 2♦ rebid over 2♣ compared to the 3♣ transfer to 3♦ bid over 2♣. Opener can refuse to bid 3♣ over 2NT (paradox) and bid something else with huge club fit (3NT if balanced). But remember, that 1D-1M-2NT-3D shows the long strong diamond one suiter, not willing to play 3♣ (with a few clubs, rebid 3♣ instead of 3♦ on some of these hands, let your hand be your guide). Also the 2NT rebid (as opposed to pass) helps reach the games where an exceptional strong minor two suiter is held by partner, so before you pass 2♣ with real clubs and very weak hand, keep this in mind.

 

Ben

[mike777]

If 1D=1H=2C=FORCE

 

What are minimum hand examples for 1H bid? Can it be zero HCP with a void in D?

What are minimum hand examples for opening bidder?

[HeartA]

I NEVER respond with ZERO hcp and VIOD (or stiff) on pd's opening suit. If I do, however, respond (which actually happened occassionally) with zero hcp, I would have a fit with opening suit.

[inquiry]

If 1D=1H=2C=FORCE

 

What are minimum hand examples for 1H bid? Can it be zero HCP with a void in D?

 

What are minimum hand examples for opening bidder?

Lets deal with opening minimum first. In KS. you open balanced minimums 1NT (weak NT), so their 1 of a minor tend to be stronger distributionally or on HCP than most peoples. Of course it is not Roth-stone.

 

For me, I play a 14-16 1NT opening range, and I have removed the 9 trick storng minor one suiter and all very srong two suiters (at least 10 cards) from the opening one of a minor. I also use that three suited 2♣ opeing bid with good 15 hcp and 5 losers or less. So my top end is limited to about 20 hcp balanced and by the restrictions mentioned above for minor one suiter, two suiter or three suiters.

 

So the top end is defined, on the bottom end, I open virtually all 26 ZAR point hands (yes I ahve passed a few, but I devaluated the holding so while it counted out to 26, I didn't think it was worth that much). I also open 25 Zar point hands with four spades or more. I tend not to open 1C or 1D on balanced 11-12 counts that can not come up with the required ZAR points, and I have been known to pass an occassional 4333 hand with 13 hcp too. On the other hand, I ahve opened in all seriousnes some 7 hcp hands. So I guess a minimum, depending on your definition, is 25 Zar po0ints or 7 hcp with lots and lots of distribution. So unilke KS, my 1 of minor can be weaker than they expect.

 

Now, also unlike KS, as I said above, my "forcing" 2♣ rebid is only quasi forcing. Partner is expected to bid, more times than not I don't have the second suit.

 

Now can partner respond 1♥ to a 1♦ opening bid with zero hcp? Certainly. I tend not bid with zero hcp however. I think responding with broke hands is actually safer this way, partner will not jump to 2NT without a four card fit and big hand, will not create a jumpshift in a suit he doesn't hold.

[hrothgar]

If 1D=1H=2C=FORCE

 

What are minimum hand examples for 1H bid? Can it be zero HCP with a void in D?

What are minimum hand examples for opening bidder?

K-S uses sound openings in the minors

 

The following example of MINIMUM opening bids are taken from How to Play Winning Bridge. Notice the emphasis on Aces and Kings in evaluating hands

 

♠ x ♥ KQxx ♦ KQTxx ♣ QJx = 14.15 K+R points

♠ AJxx ♥ xx ♦ xx ♣ AQJxx = 14.25 K+R points

♠ Qxx ♥ Qxxx ♦ AKTxxx ♣ void = 14.95 K+R points

♠ xxx ♥ x ♦ Axxx ♣ AKxxx = 14.1 K+R points

 

Of these, the last hand is probably the most relevant to the discussion at hand

[mike777]

I was not clear.

1) Once p opens 1d and rebids 2c..what is minimum hand for 2clubs force here? Any 13 or 14 hcp 2 suited hand? Or as weak as Richard's example hand of

x=xxx=axxx=akxxx?

2) Ok, I assume 1H can respond on :

 

QXXX=QXXXX=X=XXX?

3) 2Clubs is not forcing and can be passed with 6-7 HCP?

[inquiry]

I was not clear.

1) Once p opens 1d and rebids 2c..what is minimum hand for 2clubs force here? Any 13 or 14 hcp 2 suited hand? Or as weak as Richard's example hand of

x=xxx=axxx=akxxx?

I would not rebid 2♣ with 13 or 14 point hand. There is always an alternative. First is to raise with three card support which I do frequently even before switching to 2♣ as forcing. The second is to rebid 1NT, the third is to rebid my longer minor. Also, with 5-5 in minors, the weak jump to 3♣ is an option. So with richards example ha nd, I would open 1♣ and raise hearts or diamonds, and rebid 1NT over 1♠ response.

 

2) Ok, I assume 1H can respond on some reverse flannery type hand of: QXXX=QXXXX=X=XXX?

 

We actually play reverse flannery by responder (5S, 4H, not what you showed). With this hand, we would respond 1♥. If parnter jump rebids 3♣ we would pass. If partner rebids 2♣, I would rebid 2♥ to show a weak hand with five hearts and no desire to go on if partner is 17=19 balanced.

 

3) 2Clubs is not forcing and can be passed with 6-7 HCP?

I don't think you can construct a hand where I would pass 2♣ with 6-7 hcp. If I have clubs, we might have a nice fit, if I don't have clubs, partner might not either. Also, partner can have 19 hcp balanced, so 3NT would still be a possible. So my rebid will depend upon what I have. A lot of diamonds, then 3♣ an attempt to sign off in diamonds, but showing a hand like this (partner does have at least 4♦ on this auction, but can have a very long suit. With lots of clubs, i might try 2NT planning on passing 3♣ if partner gives me a chance. Remember, with just clubs, I could have passed 2♣ if really weak. Other options are 2♦ as a waiting bid. Partner generally rebids 2NT over this with the balanced hand, or raises my major with the good three card fit, or rebids 3♣ with good minor two suiter. I don't think 6-7 as rule is good enough for the waiting 2OM bid, but i will make that bid IF I can not stand to bid 2♦ and hear partner choose to pass.

 

Ben

[Stephen Tu]

Well I don't know about Ben's version, but with K-S the 2c rebid is of reverse strength; K-S advocates light reverses of about 16-17+ points (including points added for distribution.) So it's 15+ hcp 2 suiters, 17/18+ semi-bals, and 15+ single suited (14hcp+ with good suit) diamonds, roughly.

 

With the min 3-1-4-5 hand, one must open 1c, rebid 2c, losing the diamond fit if responder bypasses diamonds frequently. You don't have the option of rebidding 1nt after 1H if that shows 15-17, if using weak NT. If you are playing a strong or medium NT, you can always rebid 1nt with these hands (or raise spades if partner bids spades).

 

Even in a standard system without the semi-artificial 2c, 3-1-4-5 is a problem. Opening 1d & rebidding 2c as some people do can lead to silly things like playing your 4-2 rather than 5-3, when responder takes the false preference in case you have extra values or longer diamonds.

 

Rebidding 2c could occasionally lead to something silly like playing in a 5-1 when 4-4 or 5-4 fit was available in diamonds, but in the real world the opponents have a major fit on these hands and get in the auction.

 

3-1-5-4 of course has similar problems.