Parade of Morons

[Chas_P]

I see it differently again.

Simply require that basically, a person can't do anything w/o being vaccinated. Maybe allow the frequent test dodge if needed for some legal purpose. Restaurant? Have to be vaccinated. Shopping? Have to be vaccinated.

Then who cares who gets the blame for having to legally force people to do something that anyone with any sense does willingly.

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit."

 

Harry S. Truman

[kenberg]

"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit."

 

Harry S. Truman

 

HST left office in 1953, I had just turned 14. Not an age when a kid is much following politics but I remember him in this and that. The dust-up with MacArthur of course. And his support of his daughter's singing career. I was 5 when Roosevelt died so the first three presidents I recall are Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy. A very good start.

 

And I recall seeing "I don't give them hell, I just tell the truth and they think it's hell". 1948, I think our tv was still pretty new.

Anyway, I now have my booster. I gave up on the place that gave me my first two and went to my local pharmacy, part of a chain. Apparently, the problems with having to keep Pfizer cold have been solved, many places can now do it. I now have a call in to my doc since he has me scheduled for a flu shot and a Moderna shot a week from Friday. Due to the "unexpectedly high volume of calls" they can't take my call right now and will get back to me. These unexpected high volumes of calls seem frequent enough to be expected. Maybe they could just say we will get around to you when we feel like it.

The Moderna was a backup plan, I wanted the Pfizer and now I have it.

[y66]

anti- COVID vaccine rhetoric is killing GOP voters. But for Trump, other prominent Republicans, and Fox and other conservative media, it's a cash cow: https://thedailybeast.com/gop-launches-fundraising-frenzy-off-biden-vax-mandates

 

So… good for them, I guess!

[y66]

I now have a call in to my doc since he has me scheduled for a flu shot and a Moderna shot a week from Friday. Due to the "unexpectedly high volume of calls" they can't take my call right now and will get back to me. These unexpected high volumes of calls seem frequent enough to be expected. Maybe they could just say we will get around to you when we feel like it.[/size]

My doctor is now charging patients "who can afford it" a $365/year fee to pay for staff to cover the phones and front office stuff. It was a bit of a surprise after patronizing his practice for 30+ years but it seems to be working.

[Winstonm]

My doctor is now charging patients "who can afford it" a $365/year fee to pay for staff to cover the phones and front office stuff. It was a bit of a surprise after patronizing his practice for 30+ years but it seems to be working.

 

I used to have a doctor who did similar - only quite a bit more of a charge. This allowed him (and his brother, also a doc) to reduce their practices without reducing their standards of living. They were good - but not that good.

[y66]

I used to have a doctor who did similar - only quite a bit more of a charge. This allowed him (and his brother, also a doc) to reduce their practices without reducing their standards of living. They were good - but not that good.

I feel like my doctor is that good. My understanding is that charging this fee allows him and his colleagues to see more medicare patients than they otherwise would be able to which, believe it or not, is important to them.

[Winstonm]

I feel like my doctor is that good. My understanding is that charging this fee allows him and his colleagues to see more medicare patients than they otherwise would be able to which, believe it or not, is important to them.

I think it is fine. It is much like a co-pay that applies to everyone. The amount that is charged is the key question to me.

[pilowsky]

Perhaps the grifting email requests now have a pre-ticked checkbox that states "In the event of my death I bequeath etc".

This could explain a lot.

[Chas_P]

I wanted the Pfizer and now I have it.

I'm glad. Live long and prosper.

[barmar]

Libertarianism isn't anarchy. They still have the understanding that one individual's rights are limited to the extent that they impact someone else's life. You don't have the right to steal.

[barmar]

Now, in non-US countries, seatbelts reduce health care costs - which are paid for by socialised medicine. So in fact it does affect "everybody". But that's a more minor argument.

Even in the US, it reduces health care costs. Practically no one pays for their own medical bills, we all buy insurance. And insurance premiums are based on total health care costs. Also, more injuries means that hospitals need more beds, medical personnel, etc. to treat them. This increases total healthcare costs in society.

 

All the same things can be said about COVID-19. How many times during the pandemic have we heard news reports about hospitals having to turn away some patients because the ICU is full? Hospitals in Idaho are full and sending their overflow to Washington (guess which state has mask mandates).

 

We live in a highly connected world, very little that you do does not affect other people.

[hrothgar]

Libertarianism isn't anarchy. They still have the understanding that one individual's rights are limited to the extent that they impact someone else's life. You don't have the right to steal.

 

Hence, the widespread opposition to vaccination amongst modern day Libertarians...

[crazy4hoop]

Not sure about widespread. I think many Libertarians are pro vaccine but anti vaccine mandate - they think it's the right thing to do but should not be coerced into doing so by the government.

[Winstonm]

Not sure about widespread. I think many Libertarians are pro vaccine but anti vaccine mandate - they think it's the right thing to do but should not be coerced into doing so by the government.

So who should do the coercing of the Libertarians who refuse the vaccine?

[y66]

Allen West

 

From his hospital bed, he issued a string of tweets attacking vaccine mandates and promoting controversial treatments, vowing that if elected, he would “vehemently crush anyone forcing vaccine mandates” in Texas.

 

“Our bodies are our last sanctuary of liberty and freedom, I will defend that for everyone,” he wrote.

 

West also said that he and his wife, Angela, who is vaccinated, had received treatment with monoclonal antibodies — a move that a number of people argued on social media was at odds with his remarks against vaccines that he said were “enriching the pockets of Big Pharma.”

 

Monoclonal antibodies are proteins created in the laboratory to mimic the human immune system. The Biden administration announced last month that it had reached an agreement to buy another 1.4 million doses of the only authorized antibodies from the pharmaceutical company Regeneron for $2.9 billion, or $2,100 per dose. The most expensive coronavirus vaccines are about $20 a shot.

What an asshole.

[Winstonm]

Allen West

 

 

What an asshole.

 

It’s simple to get a bunch of teenagers to follow your lead - just tell them they are right.

[pilowsky]

It's simple to get a bunch of teenagers to follow your lead - just tell them they are right.

Not just teenagers - read 90%+ of this Forum.

How often do you read posts that say, "Oh yes, I was completely wrong about that, and you were right - how could I be so foolish - what was I thinking..."

Just for the record, it is widely accepted that in science where one would expect a little bit of rigour most stuff that is published turns out to be wrong.

This is why religion is so appealing - it doesn't need to be 'right'; you just have to believe it for it to be true.

For 'it', insert words to the effect of things that are of benefit to me personally.

[Gilithin]

Just for the record, it is widely accepted that in science where one would expect a little bit of rigour most stuff that is published turns out to be wrong.

Here's

that explains the concept in a much better and more entertaining way than either of us would.

[pilowsky]

Here's

that explains the concept in a much better and more entertaining way than either of us would.

This proves my point unequivocally. Without a shadow of a doubt and on the balance of probabilities beyond reasonable argument. OWTTE.

 

[Winstonm]

A Canadian flat-earther has been found dead two weeks after he said on a livestream that although he was sick with classic COVID symptoms, he could not possibly have the virus because he didn’t believe it’s real. “CONVID doesn’t exist,” Mak Parhar told his followers, according to Global News. In a followup video, Parhar said he was taking ivermectin, the anti-parasite drug that experts say doesn’t prevent or treat the coronavirus and could be dangerous.

[Winstonm]

The figures highlight just how much more at risk the unvaccinated population has been this year: In all age groups, the state's unvaccinated were 40 times more likely to die than fully vaccinated people. The study also found that the unvaccinated in all age groups were 45 times more likely to have a coronavirus infection than fully vaccinated people

Texas.

[mycroft]

The problem is, of course, that the Libertarians also think that they people who aren't pro-vaccine should be entitled to everything the vaccinated get. I don't see how that balances with their idea of property rights being paramount - the owner of the bar won't let you in? Well, it's their property, their rules, no? - but again, I don't think many of them have thought past "nobody but me gets to decide what I can do" to the actual results of that philosophy if the world around them agrees.

 

I (good little socialist that I am) absolutely think that the role of government is to do what's best for society as a whole, especially in situations where "tragedy of the commons" applies, or "global prisoner's dilemma" applies (if almost everybody does the "right thing that's not best for themselves specifically", then the few outliers get all the upside with little to none of the downside) (*). Antivaxx has relied on the latter up until now - almost everybody is getting vaccinated against X, so they protect "my precious little child" from the disease without the "risk" of actually vaccinating them. For reasons - including some people making it a mainstream political issue - not "almost everybody" has taken this one, and the downsides are - this thread. Whether that will wake any of them up - at least any of them that don't lose a relative or themselves first - is a question.

 

But I can live with "government shouldn't coerce people". That doesn't mean "government should force everybody else to 'just let them live with no consequences'." You can't go to restaurants/bars/conventions/concerts if you're not vaccinated? That's *your choice, man* - deal with it. Either step up and do what society expects of you, or watch as society passes you by.

 

Note: Christians who know their history should understand this - it absolutely is part of their history that they're proud of (as long as *they* don't have to be the martyrs). From my experience with them, Jews do understand this - it's even more of their history (cue the joke about Jewish holidays: "They tried to kill us. They failed. Let's eat.") Quakers are famous for it - as are the old order Mennonites and Amish. But too many libertarians are "started on third base" people who can only see where they're being restricted by society/government, not what they've gained from it.

 

What really annoys me is that although "the wisdom of the masses" is definitely a thing, individuals are stupid. About something, at least, every single one of us. Any philosophy that relies on each individual person doing X because not-X is stupid, rather than "we should insist on everybody doing X because X is obviously right", is either hopelessly deluded, politically blinkered, or just hasn't looked around at how the last n rounds of it went. But I repeat myself.

 

(*) And I certainly can see the failure modes of *that* line of thinking. In fact, much of 20th century history is the result of governments "doing what's best for society as a whole", except that not really. On all sides of the political spectrum.

[Winstonm]

The founder of one of the largest Christian TV networks in the world has died of COVID-19 after promoting anti-vaccine skeptics and unproven alternative treatments for the virus in his programming. Marcus Lamb, who created Daystar Television Network, died Tuesday morning at the age of 64, his wife said in a Tuesday broadcast.

Nobody gets too much heaven no more

It's much harder to come by

I'm waiting in line

[Winstonm]

Stupid is a worldwide condition

 

 

 

ATHENS—COVID-19 has been tearing through Orthodox Christian communities across Greece, infecting one unvaccinated religious leader after another and prompting some priests and monks to rethink their stance on the jabs.

 

Last month, at least four unvaccinated monks from Mount Athos, a COVID hotbed and one of the most important centers of Eastern Orthodox monasticism in the world, died of the virus. The issue extends to priests, too: Just last week, a priest in the city of Patra and a 46-year-old Archimandrite in Thessaloniki died of COVID-19. Both were unvaccinated.

 

[Cyberyeti]

Not somebody who died, but I think this belongs here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59524527