Poll/Bid a semi-balanced long minor

[mw64ahw]

Dealer South, NS vulnerable, teams

[hv=pc=n&s=sk4hk3da65caj8543&n=st2ha92dkt943cq97]133|200[/hv]

 

We were EW on this one ending up in 3♥ over a 1♣ opening, but would a 1NT opening have been better?

 

How do you bid this one as NS?

 

What do you do over interference?

 

How far should EW be prepared to bid?

[DavidKok]

I keep getting a server error when trying to vote, but its 1NT for me. Normally I'm not a fan of offshape 1NT openings, but we have excellent playing strength and want to protect the major suit kings. At teams there is so much to be gained from playing NT over a minor suit, I think it's worth the risk.

 

I don't know what EW have so I can't tell you if I'd overcall or not. I do know I'd blast to 3NT as North (maybe using some gadget over an overcall, depending on partnership agreement) which seems to depend on something good happening in clubs with a spade lead, and pretty much always makes on any other lead.

[mw64ahw]

Strange error-it seems to work OK for me. There are 2 parts to the poll. The 2nd states that EW both have 8hcp and 4+M

[DavidKok]

That is insufficient information to go on. Do they both have exactly 4=4 in the majors? With 9 missing spades that's suspicious. Or did you mean 4 in some major? What does the "+" mean? Is it a 5-4, a 5-5, a 7-6? Are the points aces and kings or quacks, and in the long or the short suits? Any supporting tens or spot sequences? If 5-4 or 4-4, shortness in outside suits or (semi)balanced?

[mw64ahw]

That is insufficient information to go on. Do they both have exactly 4=4 in the majors? With 9 missing spades that's suspicious. Or did you mean 4 in some major? What does the "+" mean? Is it a 5-4, a 5-5, a 7-6? Are the points aces and kings or quacks, and in the long or the short suits? Any supporting tens or spot sequences? If 5-4 or 4-4, shortness in outside suits or (semi)balanced?

One has 5-4 and the other is 4-4 in the Majors - there may or may not be wasted honour points with a minimum of Q or JT in each of the Majors. The 2nd part of the poll is structured to identify the shape you would interfere on after 1NT if at all .

 

I'm trying gauge how aggressive people are in aggregate; some may pass with 8hcp or 8hcp & balanced. Others may have a bid showing both majors.

[DavidKok]

At favourable vulnerability I would enter with a good 8 HCP and 5-4 in the majors, although I play a system where I would have to double to show spades and an unspecified second suit. Partner is allowed to pass this double with at least 10 or so points and a hand with few spades, so suit texture in the 5-card suit is very important. I'm afraid the setup of asking people to describe their bidding system before giving the problem isn't really working for me, sorry.

[Winstonm]

One has 5-4 and the other is 4-4 in the Majors - there may or may not be wasted honour points with a minimum of Q or JT in each of the Majors. The 2nd part of the poll is structured to identify the shape you would interfere on after 1NT if at all .

 

I'm trying gauge how aggressive people are in aggregate; some may pass with 8hcp or 8hcp & balanced. Others may have a bid showing both majors.

 

At mps it is usually a bad score to allow opps to play 1NT so the questions should be (IMO) separated between direct seat and pass-out seat. It is more important to disturb opponents no trump in pass out seat than direct - also less of a risk.

 

So, pass in direct, bid in pass out are my votes if that helps. ( I got server error message also)

[fromageGB]

While I would open 1NT on a 2245 I go with 1♣ when I have 6 non-solid, and unopposed we are likely to end in 5♣ with a start of 1♣ 1♠!, and treating South's hand as too good for a mere 2♣, so rebidding 3♣ or 2♠! depending on partner to show strength. Knowing of 6 cards, North will push to game especially at IMPs.

 

As West I would not overcall 1♣ (but would double 1NT to show both majors), but East may double 1♠. However EW bid no higher when S bids 2♠+. As West I would not bid higher to avoid pushing them to game.

 

Edit : PS - no error message

[LBengtsson]

error for poll also.

 

1NT is best opening bid with 6m322. 1♣ rebid 2♣ off my radar, crazy when you have very good 15 points with aces and kings and 6 card suit. that having been said, aces and kings play better in a suit contract than notrump contract, but first you must tell partner that your hand range is 15-17. and once again you have an honour king in both major suits should partner want to transfer to majors

[apollo1201]

The 2nd question is a bit hard to understand but a green W could easily use Landy with AJ9xx QJxx xxx x. Easier in the balancing seat but there is no balancing as N is not passing.

 

in all cases, that won’t change the sequence 1NT (whatever) 3NT (and now, please, if you may find the lead?). I’ve realized that advertising which suit you stop will often help the lead. And 5D is a long shot away with just 9HCP balanced.

 

The opening is 1NT for me because the C suit is too weak to rebid with a jump, while the hand is too strong to rebid 1C-2C. Oh, did I mention that I want the lead coming to my hand?

[johnu]

How far should EW be prepared to bid?

 

EW can safely bid to 6♠ with a void here, a void there, a singleton over there, spade finesse working. WTP?

[mw64ahw]

Time to evolve and include a limited set of long minor openings in 1NT-I'll start the process of persuading partner

 

For those interested the optimum result was 7♠X with slams (unbiddable?) available in ♣♦ & NT

[hv=pc=n&s=sk4hk3da65caj8543&w=sq753hq764dj872ck&n=st2ha92dkt943cq97&e=saj986hjt85dqct62]399|300|[/hv]

[DavidKok]

Wonderful for double dummy, but completely unrealistic. If South cannot scoop the offside singleton king of clubs all of 6NT, 6♣ and 6♦ are failing, plus you still need to handle the diamonds correctly (though the percentage line, cash the ace then finesse, wins). And of course the ace of spades needs to be onside. With single dummy play 5♣ seems to be the limit of the hand, and 3NT is down on a spade lead. 4♠X-2 is a poor score if your teammates got -50 for 3NT-1 at the other table, assuming you manage to show the spades in time. As West I would not overcall over 1NT (or over 1♣, for that matter), but 1NT-3NT has the advantage of shutting East out.

[mw64ahw]

Wonderful for double dummy, but completely unrealistic. If South cannot scoop the offside singleton king of clubs all of 6NT, 6♣ and 6♦ are failing, plus you still need to handle the diamonds correctly (though the percentage line, cash the ace then finesse, wins). And of course the ace of spades needs to be onside. With single dummy play 5♣ seems to be the limit of the hand, and 3NT is down on a spade lead. 4♠X-2 is a poor score if your teammates got -50 for 3NT-1 at the other table, assuming you manage to show the spades in time. As West I would not overcall over 1NT (or over 1♣, for that matter), but 1NT-3NT has the advantage of shutting East out.

Yes the slam is unrealistic, but of the 18 pairs only the 1NT openers managed to make game with 2 EW contracting in a Major.

Hence the consideration as to whether to adapt our standard 1NT opening to include the long minor/minor orientated ones.

The other advantage is reducing the likelihood of interference.

[fromageGB]

EW can safely bid to 6♠ with a void here, a void there, a singleton over there, spade finesse working. WTP?

The point being that I would be delighted to double 6♠ for +800 when the limit of our hand is 5♣.

But maybe we are not looking at the same hand, for I see no "void here, void there".

[fromageGB]

Yes the slam is unrealistic, but of the 18 pairs only the 1NT openers managed to make game with 2 EW contracting in a Major.

Hence the consideration as to whether to adapt our standard 1NT opening to include the long minor/minor orientated ones.

The other advantage is reducing the likelihood of interference.

I think it is a mistake to be basing your methods on the success of other people using different methods. A 1♣ open easily ends in game as my post shows. Moreover, I would say 3NT is a poor contract with it seeming to depend on dropping a singleton Q or K when you get a spade lead.

 

As to interference, I do not believe there is much difference. A hand that overcalls 1♣ can overcall 1NT most times, if you are prepared to relax your standard and not go looking for games over opponents' strong NT, but look for a fit. As I said, I could overcall 1NT here but not 1♣.

[mikeh]

Yes the slam is unrealistic, but of the 18 pairs only the 1NT openers managed to make game with 2 EW contracting in a Major.

Hence the consideration as to whether to adapt our standard 1NT opening to include the long minor/minor orientated ones.

The other advantage is reducing the likelihood of interference.

Slam isn’t simply unrealistic. It’s flat out down unless declarer is cheating.

 

The fact that you don’t seem to understand that one doesn’t assess bidding issues by using double dummy play says a great deal about your skill level.

 

 

As for the opening bid problem, I rarely open 1N with a 6 card minor. I would do so here because I have Kx in both majors, arguing for my hand to declare, and because neither the club suit nor the hand overall (which is influenced by the club suit) are strong enough to open 1C and rebid 3C, while a 2C rebid is ok on hand (measured in hcp) strength and suit length/texture, it undervalues the possession of stoppers in all suits.

 

As for adapting your methods over your 1N, firstly I can’t (quickly) think of any change I could make to what I think is a pretty good set of methods, that wouldn’t create more and more common problems than those I’m supposedly trying to solve. Bear in mind that I think it generally a bad idea to open 1N with a 6 card minor. For example, make this hand xx Kx AQx AQxxxx and I’d open 1C….with no spots I’d rebid 2C, with AQ10xxx in clubs I’d rebid 3C.