BId this using 2/1 - progressive

[jillybean]

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Bid this using 2/1 and the usual gadgets.

[nullve]

Not 2♣

[mikeh]

2C. Utterly clear. Even with ill-defined follow ups, this is the way to start.

 

Guess what: we show a game force hand and will probably shortly be showing 4H and 5+ clubs

 

I can’t imagine a better start.

 

Constructive bidding after 1m, outside of relay methods, is a dialogue or conversation. Start talking.

[hrothgar]

Playing any standard version of 2/1, 2♣ is obvious

 

If you're playing MAFIA, then sure, bid 1!H.

But this is far from standard and requires a bunch of ancillary agreements

[mycroft]

It does of course help if you *have* a usual gadget for 1♦-2♣ - an auction start so awful that there are conventions created explicitly for it. I don't.

 

But as long as I don't get passed in 2♣ (in which case, I'm in a decent spot with our combined 22 high), I should have lots of time to find hearts if we need to. 3NT isn't a demand stop, and I ain't stoppin'.

[jillybean]

Hooray for 2♣, I will fill in a little more of the auction.

2♦ says, diamonds, I don't have the shape or, I may have shape but not the points to bid 2M and I can't support clubs.

 

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[mw64ahw]

My gadget is 1♠ GF after which opener shows shape and we move onto the slam try if a fit is found

[mikeh]

My gadget is 1♠ GF after which opener shows shape and we move onto the slam try if a fit is found

Why not answer the question posed?

[mikeh]

Hooray for 2♣, I will fill in a little more of the auction.

2♦ says, diamonds, I don't have the shape or, I may have shape but not the points to bid 2M and I can't support clubs.

 

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Tough. Partner could have, say, Jxx Jxxx AKQJx and we have no five level safety

 

 

One common 2/1 gadget (actually, two gadgets, one serious and the other non-serious), is to use 3N artificially. In my non-serious partnership we would bid 3S as a hand with only mild slam interest (we flip 3N and 3S when hearts are agreed), which means my 4C choice is a ‘real’ slam try.

 

Over the expected 4D, I bid 4H, which says I have strong slam interest but no spade control. Opener is basically required to move with a spade control.

 

The beauty of 2/1, here, is that partner need not worry that my 2H was a notrump probe….I could bid 3C, forcing, with interest in notrump but, say, xx or xxx in a major.

 

If not playing any artificiality re 3N (or 3S), then I think one bids 4C anyway. The problem is that now 4C is only a mild try (or better) and over 4D, our 4H isn’t as strong a try as it would be otherwise.

 

This is a big reason why many partnerships play artificiality here.

 

If I bid 4C and heard 4D, I’d jump to 5H, pretty much demanding slam with a spade control. This isn’t a sure thing….opposite say AJx Jxxx AKQxx x, we want to be in 6N, but opposite Kx QJxx AJxxx xx we want to be in 6H, and I know no way to tell….

[Cyberyeti]

We play a relay over 1m-1/2suit-2m as a number of people do, which would affect this auction. I think MikeH's comments are bang on if you don't.

[Douglas43]

It looks reasonable to follow a similar auction when not playing 2/1 (I would regard 2♥ as a natural reverse, not a no-trump probe)

[mw64ahw]

Why not answer the question posed?

I have done-that's my usual progressive 2/1 gadget rather than a traditional 2♣

[jillybean]

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Over any cue, you will get a spade response, as partner will bypass diamonds.

 

I want to go back to the second round of bidding when South bid 2♦ and not 2♥ (showing 4) as this is where I find people expect, or make, a 2♥ bid. To paraphrase Mike,

After an auction starts 1x:2m, we are in a game forcing auction. To now reverse opener should have a King more than minimum, a good, working 15 count. The reason for this is that partner, knowing that opener holds a good 15 count, can safely probe for slam and not fall into the 3nt (or 4M) trap.

 

The other objection to repeating opener's suit is "it shows 6" and after 1M/2m, players do not want to rebid a 5 card major. Once we are in a 2/1 auction, a reverse or 3 level bid should show a King more than minimum. 1M:2m 2M is a waiting bid, could be a balanced 12-14 with 5M and simply tells partner we have nothing more to say at this stage. This is much like 2C:2D* waiting.

 

You may have 6 of the major, which will become apparent on subsequent rounds of bidding.

[Gilithin]

Over 3♥, whichever of 3♠, 3NT or 4♣ shows serious slam interest and asks for a ♠ control.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&d=W&e=sq95hak62d2cakqj7&v=0&b=11&a=1dp2c(G/F)p2dp2h(REV)p3hp4C(CUE)]133|200|JillyBean 'Bid this using 2/1 and the usual gadgets.Hooray for 2♣, I will fill in a little more of the auction.2♦ says, diamonds, I don't have the shape or, I may have shape but not the points to bid 2M and I can't support clubs.

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Deal rotated to make partner dealer. [/hv]

[Winstonm]

It would be great to be playing some serious/not serious slam gadget but what to do if not having that option?

 

Over 3H I will bid 4C. I assume partner bids 4S. This should be a cooperation, not a forced response, yet pard can’t be certain about trumps so I expect good ones and a reason to think slam is likely. AKx, QJ96, KJxxx, x

 

I don’t think I can find out about the spade king and pard could not go past 4H without a diamond control so I think I will settle for 6H over 4S . GS is possible but I don’t think we can find out enough to bid it.

[johnu]

Not 2♣

 

Right, absolutely not 2♣. You need to bid 2♣!!!

[Douglas43]

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Over any cue, you will get a spade response, as partner will bypass diamonds.

 

I want to go back to the second round of bidding when South bid 2♦ and not 2♥ (showing 4) as this is where I find people expect, or make, a 2♥ bid. To paraphrase Mike,

After an auction starts 1x:2m, we are in a game forcing auction. To now reverse opener should have a King more than minimum, a good, working 15 count. The reason for this is that partner, knowing that opener holds a good 15 count, can safely probe for slam and not fall into the 3nt (or 4M) trap.

 

The other objection to repeating opener's suit is "it shows 6" and after 1M/2m, players do not want to rebid a 5 card major. Once we are in a 2/1 auction, a reverse or 3 level bid should show a King more than minimum. 1M:2m 2M is a waiting bid, could be a balanced 12-14 with 5M and simply tells partner we have nothing more to say at this stage. This is much like 2C:2D* waiting.

 

You may have 6 of the major, which will become apparent on subsequent rounds of bidding.

 

OK, this is going pretty well. Partner has a spade control. 4NT RCKB should clear up the position. No Aces, stop in 5H. If playing 1430, it is still possible to use 5♦ to check for QH if partner shows one Ace. If partner denies the Queen with 5♥, give up. Otherwise bid 6♥.

[DavidKok]

Partner bypassed 4♦ - is this partnership agreement or does this imply partner does not have the control? Or would this be last train?

 

Another point of note is that partner does not have a weak NT (by virtue of not opening 1NT), so any minimum is unbalanced or semibalanced. Does the failure to splinter over 2♥ imply that partner is either 3=4=5=1 or 4=4=4=1 (don't splinter in partner's suit), 2=4=5=2 or perhaps 1=4=6=2 with a singleton honour in spades? I agree with the auction up to here and would bid 4NT next (although I think in a weak NT system there might be a case for having 2M over 1♦-2♣ not promise extras), but I'm a little worried about partner's shape. I don't know how to distinguish, say, ♠Axxx♥QJxx♦AQxx♣x from ♠Ax♥QJxx♦AQxxx♣xx (or are these ruled out by failure to bid 4♦?). Swap the ace of diamonds for the king on the first of these two hands and 6♥ is not safe (especially not on a spade lead, for example). But I guess we just take our losses in 6♥-1 opposite this nightmare hand and defence.

[Flem72]

1D-2C (GF, 5+C)2D (required if 5+D)-2H (4cd H)3H (4cdH, stronger than 4H)-4C (slam try denies S control)

 

This is all Mike Lawrence's stuff; the key is the 3H call: Even if your p'ship allows opening on Jx Jxxx AKQxx xx, this is not going to be opener's hand. For my p'ships, 4S after 4C would be KB showing a S control. You should now be able to stop in 5H if there is no QH and no AS.

[pescetom]

1D-2C (GF, 5+C)2D (required if 5+D)-2H (4cd H)3H (4cdH, stronger than 4H)-4C (slam try denies S control)

 

This is all Mike Lawrence's stuff; the key is the 3H call: Even if your p'ship allows opening on Jx Jxxx AKQxx xx, this is not going to be opener's hand. For my p'ships, 4S after 4C would be KB showing a S control. You should now be able to stop in 5H if there is no QH and no AS.

 

After 4C, we play that 4D shows the missing S control and 4S denies. Now things are clear again and we can resume the dance.

[Gilithin]

To understand 4♠, do we not need to know which agreements are in place? specifically whether 4♦ would have been control-showing, control-denying or LTTC. I cannot see any way of empowering partner to make a better informed decision than we would be able to after RKCB, so that seems like the obvious route after 4♠; but most likely Winston is right and this is heading to a small slam absent something fairly extraordinary turning up. The main slightly awkward hands I could envisage are partner showing 1 without ♥Q, or showing 2 with ♥Q and (since we are apparently not playing kickback) we now lack a good way of finding out about ♠K below 6♥. Since this reached BBF, I am tipping that the layout will be the latter.

[DavidKok]

You don't need to find out about the ♠K below 6♥ on hearing 2+Q, you just need to stop in 6♥ if it's missing. So pull out your king ask and proceed to 7♥ (or 7NT) if partner produces the spade king.

[Winstonm]

Partner bypassed 4♦ - is this partnership agreement or does this imply partner does not have the control? Or would this be last train?

 

Another point of note is that partner does not have a weak NT (by virtue of not opening 1NT), so any minimum is unbalanced or semibalanced. Does the failure to splinter over 2♥ imply that partner is either 3=4=5=1 or 4=4=4=1 (don't splinter in partner's suit), 2=4=5=2 or perhaps 1=4=6=2 with a singleton honour in spades? I agree with the auction up to here and would bid 4NT next (although I think in a weak NT system there might be a case for having 2M over 1♦-2♣ not promise extras), but I'm a little worried about partner's shape. I don't know how to distinguish, say, ♠Axxx♥QJxx♦AQxx♣x from ♠Ax♥QJxx♦AQxxx♣xx (or are these ruled out by failure to bid 4♦?). Swap the ace of diamonds for the king on the first of these two hands and 6♥ is not safe (especially not on a spade lead, for example). But I guess we just take our losses in 6♥-1 opposite this nightmare hand and defence.

In my favored partnership of old, these two hands would cue bid 4D. not 4S. The cue below game is not initially as encouraging as one above game.

 

After 4D it would proceed:

 

4H-4S

4N-5x

[jillybean]

Partner bypassed 4♦ - is this partnership agreement or does this imply partner does not have the control? Or would this be last train?

 

Another point of note is that partner does not have a weak NT (by virtue of not opening 1NT), so any minimum is unbalanced or semibalanced. Does the failure to splinter over 2♥ imply that partner is either 3=4=5=1 or 4=4=4=1 (don't splinter in partner's suit), 2=4=5=2 or perhaps 1=4=6=2 with a singleton honour in spades? I agree with the auction up to here and would bid 4NT next (although I think in a weak NT system there might be a case for having 2M over 1♦-2♣ not promise extras), but I'm a little worried about partner's shape. I don't know how to distinguish, say, ♠Axxx♥QJxx♦AQxx♣x from ♠Ax♥QJxx♦AQxxx♣xx (or are these ruled out by failure to bid 4♦?). Swap the ace of diamonds for the king on the first of these two hands and 6♥ is not safe (especially not on a spade lead, for example). But I guess we just take our losses in 6♥-1 opposite this nightmare hand and defence.

 

Partner bypassed 4♦ denying a diamond control.

Partner would not splinter in your suit - clubs.