Good grief!

[mikeh]

This isn’t an easy hand

 

I play T-Walsh so I won’t post my likely auction.

 

Playing ‘normal’, but with 1S as ambiguous 4th suit gf, with or without spades:

 

 

1C 1D

1H 1S

 

1H shows an unbalanced hand, but I don’t think that playing up the line impacts this hand anyway

 

 

Opener bids 2S, showing (if 1H showed an unbalanced hand) 4405 or 4414. If up the line, then it shows 4423/4414/4405

 

 

Responder has a slam try hand, so bids 3S.

 

Now cuebidding follows via 4C, 4D, 4H

 

 

Responder uses keycard. The 5H response is annoying but the hand is too strong to sign off in 5S.

 

5N promises all the keycards but doesn’t promise the spade Queen (if it does for you, I’d jump to 6N rather than potentially mislead partner via 5N. 6N must have play opposite any hand on which opener cuebid, since he ought not to cuebid with a complete minimum).

 

Playing 5N as asking for the number of kings leads to 6N immediately. Playing specific kings, this takes another round…6C…6D….6H…6N

 

 

I’d like to claim that opener can and should raise 6N to 7N, and indeed I think it’s clearly correct to do so. Responder has declined to play in spades, so his diamonds must be solid. Assuming he has 6 of them, which is probable given 6 N opposite xxxx AKxx x AKxx, that heart Queen ought to be the 13th trick.

 

In real life, I suspect I’d sit there as opener, telling myself I should bid 7N, and then pass

 

 

If we have to jump to 2S over 1H to show spades, a treatment I would never willingly play, over opener’s 3S (clearly it’s best to use 4S as a terrible minimum with four spades), responder has an awkward hand. However, 4D fetches 4H and opener should not cue over 4D without a club control….since responder denied one by cuebidding diamonds. I think all roads lead to the same 6N, with opener thinking about 7.

 

 

Note that there is zero reason to play in spades. Our diamonds will deliver 6 tricks almost all the time even opposite a void. Count winners! 6 diamonds and the AK of all side suits…playing in spades deserves 2 spade losers.

[pescetom]

Late to the thread.

I would have rebid 2♦ artificial game force, now partner has a difficult decision.

[gszes]

There is no "regular" system I know of where 1s is not forcing, natural or not. I fail to see any benefit to taking up valuable bidding space by making a nebulous 2s "undiscussed" bid when there is so much I need to find out about this hand. I have some sympathy for the 2d soloway jump shifters but I personally hate to arbitrarily bypass a possible 44 fit in the majors early in the bidding.

[mikeh]

Why does anyone say that 2D over 1C is a Soloway jumpshift?

 

It’s not

 

It could be a strong jumpshift but a Soloway jumpshift is a subset of strong jumpshifts and they do not include this hand type

[pilowsky]

[hv=lin=st||pn|pilowsky,~~M915irtr,~~M5294eiw,~~M7776a16|md|4ST98HA765D83C5432,SAK32H92DAKQJT2C9,S65HK43D9765CKJT6,SQJ74HQJT8D4CAQ87|sv|n|rh||ah|Board%202|mb|1C|an|Minor%20suit%20opening%20--%203+%20!C;%2011-21%20HCP;%2012-22%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|1D|an|One%20over%20one%20--%204+%20!D;%206+%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|1H|an|3+%20!C;%204+%20!H;%2011+%20HCP;%2012-18%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|2S|an|Natural%20and%20forcing%20--%205+%20!D;%204%20!S;%2012+%20HCP;%2013+%20total%20points;%20forcing%20to%203N%20|mb|P|mb|3S|an|3+%20!C;%204%20!H;%204%20!S;%2011+%20HCP;%2012-18%20total%20points;%20forcing%20|mb|P|mb|4D|an|Cue%20bid%20--%201+%20!C;%205+%20!D;%204%20!S;%20no%20!CA;%20!DA;%2018+%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|4N|an|Blackwood%20(S)%20--%203+%20!C;%204%20!H;%204%20!S;%2014-18%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|5C|an|Zero%20or%20three%20key%20cards%20--%201+%20!C;%205+%20!D;%204%20!S;%20no%20!CA;%20!DA;%2018+%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|6S|an|3+%20!C;%204%20!H;%204%20!S;%2014-18%20total%20points%20|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|]300|300|

For what it's worth, I designed a hand yesterday that roughly fitted the parameters of your problem and gave it to GIB on a Bidding table.

They started out as you describe and alert the 2♠ bid as natural and forcing.

[/hv]

[Winstonm]

Why does anyone say that 2D over 1C is a Soloway jumpshift?

 

It's not

 

 

 

Guilty! Although I've never played SJS I've always associated them with a weaker-than-standard jump shift so I was the one who first used the term in this thread. I have now been duly chastised.

 

Curse you, Red Baron!

[Cyberyeti]

Not sure if this is fantasy:

 

1♣-1♦

1♥-1♠(4SF not GF)

2♠(nat 15+ GF)-3♦ (big diamond suit, slammy)

3♥-3♠

4♣-4♦

4♥-4N(keycard)

5♥(2w/o)-5N(tell me more)

6♣-6♦

6♥-7N

 

E has managed to cue ♥AKQ and ♣AK.

[pescetom]

As mentioned, if East opens 1♣ then we are heading into XYZ.

On a dull day it would probably go:

1♣ - 1♦

1♥ - 2♦ (art FG)

2♠ - 3♠

4♣ - 4♦

and so on, sputtering out in 6♠ when West realises he has no clue about ♥Q.

 

If West had just downed an espresso and was feeling like masterminding then he might risk a game forcing raise of hearts, which would work out nicely:

1♣ - 1♦

1♥ - 3♥ (nat FG)

4♣ (♣,!♠) - 4♦ (♠)

5♣ (♣,odd) - 5♦ (♦)

6♦ (♦, !♠, !♣, ♥Q) - 7N

p

where West has located ♥AKQ and ♣KQ.