serious 3nt

[P_Marlowe]

Your given rule: If a mayor fit is found,  3NT is never

to play, is the rule, we follow, always.

this isn't true... fred defines serious 3nt as (paraphrasing) "an 8 card or longer major suit fit in a game forcing auction"... how oh how did 2s on the example auction establish a game force? if it did not establish a game force, then opener (the 2s bidder) can not be expected to understand 3nt as anything other than an offer to play, regardless of responder's intent

Hi Luke,

 

as it is so often the case, it depends on partnership

agreement.

 

You stress the point, that 3NT is only serious, when

the auction is already game forcing.

Thats fine, but then it will be near impossible for

responder to bid 3 NT as serious:

 

1D - 1S

2S - 3C (1)

3S (2) - 3NT (3)

 

 

(1) game try, however you play it, it could be intended

as adv. cue bid, but nobody knows, but then, it does

not create a game force

(2) minimum, no interest in game, hence no game force

(3) with your definition: it is not serious, in other word

responder will need to use LTTC and Lackwood,

to make it clear, that he really has strong interest

in slam

 

Looking at those implications, I really prefer my simple rule,

I may give up on the choice of game, which would be nice to

have and I may loose out there, but I will avoid

misunderstandings groping up in LTTC and Lackwood sequences.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: As a side note: Due to lack of judgement, I dont play very often,

I will sometimes get it wrong, which game I should choose, following

my simple rule, I will stop agonizing about those close decisions

and save my stamina.

[luke warm]

You stress the point, that 3NT is only serious, when the auction is already game forcing. Thats fine, but then it will be near impossible for responder to bid 3 NT as serious:

 

exactly right... and btw, it's only a matter of agreement when the p'ship plays something other than the system in question... serious 3nt is defined in the notes, and that's the system we're playing

 

1D      - 1S

2S      - 3C  (1)

3S (2) - 3NT (3)

 

in this auction, i'm not quite clear on what's happening... i've seen people bid a 4 card spade suit before a 5 card club suit, with a gave forcing hand.. i don't do it, but i have seen it

 

the 3s bid to me says "i have 4 spades"... this is necessary since the 1S bid could only be 4 cards... 3nt shows a good hand imo but if i had slam interest i'd continue to cue else bid rkc... why would i want to deny interest in 3nt when often that's the best spot?

 

just my opinion...

[helene_t]

I think that Serious 3N could still work after 1 grape - 1 banana - 2 bananas. You just can't bid it directly after the single raise. Temporize with something else 1st and then bid 3N.

As long as opener promises 4 bananas. Otherwise you could relay with 2 or 3 oranges (or two notrump) and then use serious 3NT after opener showed 4 bananas.

 

But why would you do that? Opener's strength is reasonably well defined and responder is captain. So opener must cooperate if responder starts cuebidding. There's little need to bypass 3NT in order to ask opner not to cooperate with a minimum, since he allready showed a minimum.

[mike777]

Your given rule: If a mayor fit is found,  3NT is never

to play, is the rule, we follow, always.

this isn't true... fred defines serious 3nt as (paraphrasing) "an 8 card or longer major suit fit in a game forcing auction"... how oh how did 2s on the example auction establish a game force? if it did not establish a game force, then opener (the 2s bidder) can not be expected to understand 3nt as anything other than an offer to play, regardless of responder's intent

Hi Luke,

 

as it is so often the case, it depends on partnership

agreement.

 

You stress the point, that 3NT is only serious, when

the auction is already game forcing.

Thats fine, but then it will be near impossible for

responder to bid 3 NT as serious:

 

1D - 1S

2S - 3C (1)

3S (2) - 3NT (3)

 

 

(1) game try, however you play it, it could be intended

as adv. cue bid, but nobody knows, but then, it does

not create a game force

(2) minimum, no interest in game, hence no game force

(3) with your definition: it is not serious, in other word

responder will need to use LTTC and Lackwood,

to make it clear, that he really has strong interest

in slam

 

Looking at those implications, I really prefer my simple rule,

I may give up on the choice of game, which would be nice to

have and I may loose out there, but I will avoid

misunderstandings groping up in LTTC and Lackwood sequences.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: As a side note: Due to lack of judgement, I dont play very often,

I will sometimes get it wrong, which game I should choose, following

my simple rule, I will stop agonizing about those close decisions

and save my stamina.

Alert convention Abuse

 

P has bid 2s and 3s Good Grief! They have nothing. They could not make some game try back to you over 3clubs. Note here they could have bid 3d or 3h not 3s but did not. Opener sounds like he has one of my 10HCP NV openers.

AKXX=XX=QJXX=XXX

 

Serious 3nt comes up very rarely, most of the time just make your cuebids or bid game. Convention abuse and overuse.

[Stephen Tu]

with your definition: it is not serious, in other word

responder will need to use LTTC and Lackwood,

to make it clear, that he really has strong interest

in slam

 

No, you don't. When one partner has shown a minimum, then a minimum-minimum, if the other partner is still cue-bidding, he of course has strong slam interest. You don't need to distinguish strong interest from weak interest after someone has been limited! If you only had mild interest, if opener has shown no signs of life you just sign off in game, you shouldn't be interested anymore.

 

3NT as serious 3NT in these types of situations is a waste of a bid.