Winstonm Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 [hv=pc=n&s=sakth96dak9cq7643&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1hppdp2d2h]133|200[/hv] What do you do now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 [hv=pc=n&s=sakth96dak9cq7643&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1hppdp2d2h]133|200|Winstonm 'What do you do now?'+++++++++++++++++++I rank:1. Double = Extras.2. 3♦ = Exaggerates trump support.3. Pass = Underbid.4. 3♥ = Overbid.5. 3♣ = Distortion.6. 2N = Ditto.[/hv] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 6, 2021 Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 Does whether partner would bid 1♠ or 2♦ with a 3343 have any relevance here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2021 This hand was presented in a bidding contest and all you know is that vanilla 2/1 is the imposed system. Presented by Richard Pavlicek a long time ago, but in the BB it was bid by Bobby Levin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Does whether partner would bid 1♠ or 2♦ with a 3343 have any relevance here ?Absolutely. I don't want partner to play in a 3-3 fit. I suppose I could correct to 3c but I'm not that strong.I pass. I don't think a second double leads to anything good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 What do you do now?It may depend on the system, e.g. on how I show approximately this many hcp and a balanced hand, whether 2♦ promises 5+ D and whether we play Good/Bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 I think this is an easy double no matter which system, form of scoring, state of the match or psychedelic influences I might be under.We have an A and a Q more than we promised. Game is easily possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Bobby Levin in the 1981 Bermuda Bowl bid 3D, yet they still missed 3NT when his partner had Qxxxxx in diamonds and A10x in hearts. I like Levin’s bid because it gives partner more information while showing similar strength as double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 It may depend on the system, e.g. on how I show approximately this many hcp and a balanced hand, whether 2♦ promises 5+ D and whether we play Good/Bad.Vanilla 2/1 in the bidding contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBengtsson Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 the worst that may happen if we X again is that we end in 3♦ and go for -2. the chance of that being 3♦X-2 is less than 5% imo. east is weak weak. if west is trap passing with a good hand and north has nothing then I still think they will bid 3♥ here other than X 3♦ bid by us. south is in balance seat with extra values: X again is only way to show this. passing may be best as helene_t indicates if partner is terrible 3343 shape, but 3352 shape is 15.5% and 3343 is 10.5% so I take chance here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Absolutely. I don't want partner to play in a 3-3 fit. I suppose I could correct to 3c but I'm not that strong.I pass. I don't think a second double leads to anything good. The basis of this bidding contest was to gauge judgment. With an Ace more than advertised, pass seems awfully conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 the worst that may happen if we X again is that we end in 3♦ and go for -2. the chance of that being 3♦X-2 is less than 5% imo. east is weak weak. if west is trap passing with a good hand and north has nothing then I still think they will bid 3♥ here other than X 3♦ bid by us. south is in balance seat with extra values: X again is only way to show this. passing may be best as helene_t indicates if partner is terrible 3343 shape, but 3352 shape is 15.5% and 3343 is 10.5% so I take chance here. How likely is it that partner will convert the second double to penalty? Not very at imps . So why not bid 3D instead of forcing your partner to bid 3D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidKok Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 How likely is it that partner will convert the second double to penalty? Not very at imps . So why not bid 3D instead of forcing your partner to bid 3D?Maybe partner would like to bid something other than 3D? Either way a voluntary raise to the 3-level typically shows 4-card support, double paints a more accurate picture of our cards even if the final contract may well end up the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 With an Ace more than advertised... and Good/Bad not available in response to my double I'm going to bid 2N (16-18 BAL-ish?) now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Maybe partner would like to bid something other than 3D? Either way a voluntary raise to the 3-level typically shows 4-card support, double paints a more accurate picture of our cards even if the final contract may well end up the same. Yes, a voluntary raise normally shows 4 - else this would not have been a bidding problem. It really gets down to 2 questions: should this hand bid again? If so, is 3D or double better? Here is what Richard Pavlicek said as moderator: Keep it simple, and I agree. The consensus to raise partner's suit is the practical way to show extra values. The lack of a fourth trump is a concern, but the enemy raise increases the chance that partner has 5+ cards. Further, A-K-9 is strong enough for Moysian appeal. If partner has some disgusting hand like x-x-x, x-x-x, J-x-x-x, x-x-x, it's just too bad. A second double seems like the normal approach, conveying the strength about right; but partner will expect four spades. Hence, his most likely action will be to bid a three-card spade suit, which will solve nothing. If you then correct to 3D , he will expect you to have even greater strength. PS: In the original poll, I doubled with this hand and so did Justin Lall, so I felt I was in great company. I miss Justin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 ... and Good/Bad not available in response to my double I'm going to bid 2N (16-18 BAL-ish?) now. 2N would be considered by most I think to be 18-19. Seems an overbid to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 [hv=pc=n&s=sakth96dak9cq7643&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=1hppdp2d2h]133|200|Winstonm 'What do you do now?'+++++++++++++++++++I rank:1. Double = Extras.2. 3♦ = Exaggerates trump support.3. Pass = Underbid.4. 3♥ = Overbid.5. 3♣ = Distortion.6. 2N = Ditto.[/hv] Nige, you may be interested that Richard Pavlichek reversed your scoring, awarding 3D the top score and double the second highest. Voting was 3D: 546 votes Score 10, Double 362 votes Score 8, Pass 288 votes, Score 6, 3C 139 votes, Score 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nullve Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 2N would be considered by most I think to be 18-19.Even if (1♥)-P-(P)-1N = 11-15 (or so, but definitely not 15-17!) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 2N would be considered by most I think to be 18-19. Seems an overbid to me. 1x-P-P-2N most people play as something like that, x then 1N is a second seat 1N overcall because the 4th seat one is 11-14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Even if (1♥)-P-(P)-1N = 11-15 (or so, but definitely not 15-17!) ?I forgot this was originally a pass out seat double and was thinking it was direct seat. Duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 1x-P-P-2N most people play as something like that, x then 1N is a second seat 1N overcall because the 4th seat one is 11-14Of course. I was thinking this was a direct seat takeout double - seems my personal curse when using an iPhone is to forget the initial post. 😎 Or maybe it is just age. 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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