So sweet - NZ teams

[jillybean]

We played matches 5&6 tonight, here's one board of interest.

 

[hv=pc=n&e=skj8hakqj8daq5ck9&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p2s(*5S-5other%20%3C10hcp)Xp3hp?]133|200[/hv]

 

2♠ shows 5 spades and 5 of "another suit", less than 10 hcp.

 

How do you proceed from here?

[DavidKok]

Are you playing Lebensohl on this auction?

[Cyberyeti]

Are you playing Lebensohl on this auction?

 

And if not why not :) You need some sort of method here, but we can comfortably be making a slam opposite a hand that will still show the weak version (xx, xxxxx, KJxx, Ax and many other hands are likely to be sufficient).

[jillybean]

Are you playing Lebensohl on this auction?

Yes

Well, good question. Since this is a weak2 type hand, I'd say yes.

These are treatments I don't face in North America, so a lot of it is undiscussed.

[DavidKok]

So, pretending to be an expert bean counter for a moment, we have 23 HCP and partner ostensibly shows 8+ for the positive bid. Furthermore, they have picked our long suit. I think we should start to plan an auction to get to 6NT from our side (or 7 something if partner has two aces) to protect the black kings. Partner is unlikely to ever believe we have such a big hand, but we can force partner to disclose something about their cards.

 

In the traditional Lebensohl 3♥ here is GF, although some pairs play it as INV. Either way 3♠ should show a control and confirm hearts (which we will correct later). Partner is likely to sign off with 4♥, and then we can bid 4NT keycards. Depending on partnership agreements there is a risk partner will bid some conventional 3NT over 3♠ - what would this mean in your partnership?

 

Perhaps a true mastermind would bid 4♦ instead of 3♠, showing a long diamond hand. This way the ♦K would count as a key card and we can explore 7. Alas (or fortunately), that is not the approach I prefer.

[jillybean]

If we bid 3S, partner will cue or bid 3nt with a spade stopper.

[DavidKok]

That's rough, partner may well have a hand like Ax, T9xxx, KJx, xxx where 6NT in our hand can make on the two (marked?) finesses, but over 3♠-3NT any slam goes down on a club lead. Our failure to bid 4♠/4NT on the first round excludes both minors, so 4NT now is probably just keycards. I guess that's the best way forward.

[mycroft]

I would assume with OP that 4♠ is KC for hearts, so 4NT is - what? Having said that, what's the chance it would go 4♠-4NT?

 

There's an argument for blasting 6NT and seeing if they can find the successful defence.

[jillybean]

I would assume with OP that 4♠ is KC for hearts, so 4NT is - what? Having said that, what's the chance it would go 4♠-4NT?

 

There's an argument for blasting 6NT and seeing if they can find the successful defence.

4nt is a spade cue

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&e=skj8hakqj8daq5ck9&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p2s(*5S-5other%20%3C10hcp)Xp3hp3sp3ntp?]133|200[/hv]

[DavidKok]

Back, back! The 3♠ bid was a mistake because the chance of 3NT was too high. There's no fixing it now.

[Douglas43]

Not convinced by the original takeout double; I'd bid 3NT over 2S.

[Winstonm]

Without Lebensohl, I give opener a 7-count and that leaves on average 5 hcp for the other two hands. On hands like this where I hold secondary honors in what appears to be both of opponent's suits I rarely find the perfect holdings in partner's hand to make a great deal of tricks.

 

I would simply raise to 4H.

 

With Lebensohl, I would bid 3S, as there is no other bid to show strength that makes sense to me, but even then it might get dicey if a potential slam is wrong sided.

[Winstonm]

[hv=pc=n&e=skj8hakqj8daq5ck9&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p2s(*5S-5other%20%3C10hcp)Xp3hp3sp3ntp?]133|200[/hv]

 

I think the only prudent action now is 4H. I don't think there is an intelligent way to find out if partner has club help, and without club help we have wrong-sided every reasonable contract option.

[smerriman]

In the traditional Lebensohl 3♥ here is GF, although some pairs play it as INV.

Um, how exactly can 3♥ be GF as a passed hand? (And even if you weren't a passed hand, 3♥ isn't GF in any form of lebensohl I've ever heard of..)

 

Not convinced by the original takeout double; I'd bid 3NT over 2S.

I would treat that as a long minor (or some source of 9 tricks with a stopper) rather than showing a strong balanced hand.

[mikeh]

Back, back! The 3♠ bid was a mistake because the chance of 3NT was too high. There's no fixing it now.

You bid 4H if scared of 3N being wrong-sided, but the club Ace rates to be onside, given our hand and placing a spade honour in partner’s hand, plus opener’s minor may be diamonds and, finally, partner may have a useful club holding, since he sure doesn’t have much in hearts.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=st94h74djt862c874&w=sa5ht963dk943c632&n=sq7632h52d7caqjt5&e=skj8hakqj8daq5ck9&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p2s(*S%20%2B%20other%20%3C10hcp)dp3hp3sp3np6hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I thought partner must have ♠Ace for his bid, he's not doing it on Qxx

Lead = A♣

Two pairs out of the 12 found the slam. B-)

 

I will post more about this game when I get time but I will say we won both matches last night.

[jillybean]

Not convinced by the original takeout double; I'd bid 3NT over 2S.

I do not like this option at all. 3nt is a trap and gives up on finding anything better.

[mycroft]

Um, how exactly can 3♥ be GF as a passed hand? (And even if you weren't a passed hand, 3♥ isn't GF in any form of lebensohl I've ever heard of..)

Easy. Doubles in direct seat of weak 2s are sound, usually 15+ or so counting shape.

 

Oh, you don't play that? Well, then, your auctions are harder, as you have to guess if partner has a "real" hand or not each time. But you get in more often. But it goes p-weak 2-X-XX (penalty) more often, too.

 

Cyberyeti and I have very different ideas on action over preempts. His style works for him; my style works for me. It looks like your style is closer to his than mine. We would both admit that our styles cost sometimes. Preempts Work.

[smerriman]

Easy. Doubles in direct seat of weak 2s are sound, usually 15+ or so counting shape.

Perhaps. But even with a different range of doubles, when one of cue / leb-cue can show a GF with 4 hearts, and you have the option to bid 4♥ with 5 hearts, giving up heart invites still seems odd to me.

 

Either way, even if it's a good idea, I still wouldn't call it 'traditional'.

[Cyberyeti]

Um, how exactly can 3♥ be GF as a passed hand? (And even if you weren't a passed hand, 3♥ isn't GF in any form of lebensohl I've ever heard of..)

 

3♥ was GF in the original form of leb I was taught by an unpassed hand, obv not by a passed hand.

[LBengtsson]

Two pairs out of the 12 found the slam. B-)

 

jillybean. how many norths opened 2♠ out of the 12? east playing slam is over 50%. if bidding go 2♣- 2♦(wait) - 2♥ natural/kokish I cannot see how you can miss slam? only 2♠ opening makes it difficult to find...

[Winstonm]

[hv=pc=n&s=st94h74djt862c874&w=sa5ht963dk943c632&n=sq7632h52d7caqjt5&e=skj8hakqj8daq5ck9&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p2s(*S%20%2B%20other%20%3C10hcp)dp3hp3sp3np6hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I thought partner must have ♠Ace for his bid, he's not doing it on Qxx

Lead = A♣

Two pairs out of the 12 found the slam. B-)

 

I will post more about this game when I get time but I will say we won both matches last night.

What else can partner bid but 3nt over 3s with Q107? Btw, the cue bid puts enormous pressure on partner to find an intelligent bid unless it agrees hearts.

[jillybean]

jillybean. how many norths opened 2♠ out of the 12? east playing slam is over 50%. if bidding go 2♣- 2♦(wait) - 2♥ natural/kokish I cannot see how you can miss slam? only 2♠ opening makes it difficult to find...

I do not know how many N opened 2♠. Other than 2 tables finding 6♥, EW 4 played in 4♥, 1 played in 5♥, 4 played in 3nt, and once South played in 5♣X.

[jillybean]

What else can partner bid but 3nt over 3s with Q107? Btw, the cue bid puts enormous pressure on partner to find an intelligent bid unless it agrees hearts.

3♠ ostensibly agrees hearts, with ♠QT7 partner could return to 4♥. Yes, I got lucky. The cue bid does put pressure on partner but we are already under pressure after the 2♠ opening.