Takeout double

[TylerE]

It's not a limit raise, but it's, well, invitational. The lower limit of 2♠ on this auction is at least marginally higher than a 1♠ opening.

[pescetom]

Or maybe even struggle to make 1.

Do you really believe that is likely? I would guess punting game to be quite reasonable in probability terms, even at MP.

 

 

I would immediately get another partner if they passed 2♠ with that hand. Apologies in advance if I boot you from the table if you do something like this :lol:

You either weren't thinking or just looking for a Strawman argument here :)

Nowhere did I suggest anyone would pass anything, nor for that matter that 2♠ was not a good bid if it fits your agreements better than 3♠ does.

My point was just that being able to construct a hand consistent with a certain result does not make that result likely (and implicitly that I think making 12 is at least as likely as struggling to make 1).

[TylerE]

Do you really believe that is likely? I would guess punting game to be quite reasonable in probability terms, even at MP.

 

It's not really THAT unlikely. Just need partner to have no kings, and get a 4-1 spade break.

[helene_t]

A good player corrected me in a simillar sequence, that it was (technically) not an invite.

 

Maybe that person would call 3♠ a "constructive raise" and 3♥ and "invite"?

 

In this sequence I would call both invites, assuming we have the agreement that 3♥ is the stronger invite.

 

But I am not even sure if 3♥ by a passed hand should promise support.

[DavidKok]

A good player corrected me in a simillar sequence, that it was (technically) not an invite.

But you, a good player from what I read from your other posts, use that terminology.

Maybe it is a question of native speaker (I guess he was, I am not, I don’t know for you).

Courtesy raise is the word?

Or it is a different strength vs an unopposed invite (from a good 10 to a bad 12)?

If you know, I’m happy to learn. After all, improving one’s bridge is not only masterizing new squeezes techniques or conventions, it is also using the appropriate terms!😃

I think the term 'courtesy raise' only applies if the hand showing the long suit is unlimited. For example 1♣-(1♠)-2♥ (forcing)-(P); ?, where opener has a mandatory raise with 3-card support and a minimum (or, I suppose, even on the simple auction 1♥-(1♠)-?, where responder should raise on approximately 4-7 HCP). In the context of a limited hand I believe 'competitive raise' is the normal description, which is typically not invitational.

 

Maybe that person would call 3♠ a "constructive raise" and 3♥ and "invite"?

 

In this sequence I would call both invites, assuming we have the agreement that 3♥ is the stronger invite.

 

But I am not even sure if 3♥ by a passed hand should promise support.

This is exactly what these bids would mean in my partnership. If, as the passed hand, you don't have spades, no heart stop and no minor suit just pass. On a disaster hand like 2=3=4=4 with 11 points either roll over ("well done opps!") or fudge with 3♣ ("I had a spade in with my clubs").

[pilowsky]

[hv=pc=n&s=skq7432h7dkj5c753&w=sthakq8642daq3cq8&n=s9865ht9dt86cakt6&e=sajhj53d9742cj942&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=2sdp3cp3h3s(North%20wakes%20up)4h(You%20don't%20fool%20me%20twice)pp4s(Let's%20be%20difficult)pp5h(after%20a%20long%20pause)ppp]399|300|

Can't say I'm not a quick learner.

This hand came up in the Club today with the same partner.

This time I was ready.[/hv]

[helene_t]

It looks like EW don't play Lebensohl? But even so, East's pass over 4!S is probably forcing, so pass shows that he's not sure about 5!h?

[pilowsky]

It looks like EW don't play Lebensohl? But even so, East's pass over 4!S is probably forcing, so pass shows that he's not sure about 5!h?

 

Apologies - the hand came from the Club.

I was East and my (better) partner was West.

Afterwards, I was (slightly) admonished for not bidding Lebensohl.

After the original hand, I figured any bid at all would be forcing and I could take it from there - "Pilowskysohl" perhaps?