nz teams - 22

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&e=s853h87643dkq5caq&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1n(12-14)p?]133|200[/hv]

 

IMPs, strong field.

 

12-14 nt, your system is;

2♣ invitational stayman

2♦ gf artificial - opener will respond with 4cM

2♥/2♠ to play

2N - 3♣/3♦

[nullve]

Pass

[mw64ahw]

2♣ - you have a potential a game vs a max. NT opening

 

I should have added I'm looking for partner to respond positively in either ♥ or ♠ and if max end up in 4♥/3NT vs ♥ or 3NT vs ♠

[Evies Dad]

2C, only because you want to play in H if you have a fit.

[Evies Dad]

2C, only because you want to play in H if you have a fit.

[pescetom]

Would prefer to have 2♦ as transfer, but as it is I bid 2♣. Not going to pass or signout, vulnerable at IMPs.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=s853h87643dkq5caq&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1n(12-14)p?]133|200| JillyBean

'IMPs, strong field. 12-14 nt, your system is;

2♣ invitational stayman

2♦ gf artificial - opener will respond with 4cM

2♥/2♠ to play

++++++++++++++++++++

I rank

1. 2♥ = S/O. A 5-3 or better ♥ fit is likely. You don't mind if opponents compete.

2. Pass.

3. 2♣ = INV Stayman but 2♠ might not be an improvement.

[/hv]

[TylerE]

Change my system. Not having transfers available is nigh unplayable in anything above a novice game opp. 12-14.

 

Failing that... it's IMPs and we're red. Invite (at least) seems mandatory. I'd rather just shootout 3N than make a non-forcing bid.

[LBengtsson]

[hv=pc=n&e=s853h87643dkq5caq&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1n(12-14)p?]133|200| JillyBean

'IMPs, strong field. 12-14 nt, your system is;

2♣ invitational stayman

2♦ gf artificial - opener will respond with 4cM

2♥/2♠ to play

++++++++++++++++++++

I rank

1. 2♥ = S/O. A 5-3 or better ♥ fit is likely. You don't mind if opponents compete.

2. Pass.

3. 2♣ = INV Stayman but 2♠ might not be an improvement.

[/hv]

 

agree completely. 5-3/5-4 ♥ contract more usual than 5-2, and partner more like to have 12-13 than 14 max. without transfer partner cannot show 5-4 ♥ fit as supermax (3♥) then I would bid 4♥ so I will go with second best with the system we have available.

[Douglas43]

I'd prefer to transfer then bid 2NT. Failing that, Stayman.

[mycroft]

Ah, while I've switched, 2-way is perfectly playable. These hands suck for it, but every system has those. Mine means I don't get garbage stayman.

 

If I think this is invitational (basically, if we invite light and accept heavy), then 2♣, then hearts over any response (possibly 4 over 2♥).

If not, 2♥ and bait them to come in (because I'd do the same thing with the same hand and AKQ less). Sure, vul at IMPs, but this is an awful 11.

 

Yes, that means we can get to 3♥, but a transfer system will get you to 3♥ (or 2NT, is that any better?) too.

 

Take your pick, and do that, and pay off to system; and take your wins when they show up (like the next hand where you have ♠KJxxx and out and it goes 1NT-p-2♠ at our table, and 1NT-p-2♥-X; (and then 2♠-3♥-p-4♥) at yours).

[Winstonm]

2C for one reason only - if partner holds 4 or 5 hearts, we need to be in our vulnerable game.

[Cyberyeti]

2C for one reason only - if partner holds 4 or 5 hearts, we need to be in our vulnerable game.

 

Are you sure you have a vulnerable game ? there are 16 counts with 4 hearts where you can't make 3 without any terrible breaks and partner doesn't have that much, and you're on a blind guess whether he will have the right cards. I would probably only raise to 3 if partner shows hearts to stayman.

[Winstonm]

Are you sure you have a vulnerable game ? there are 16 counts with 4 hearts where you can't make 3 without any terrible breaks and partner doesn't have that much, and you're on a blind guess whether he will have the right cards. I would probably only raise to 3 if partner shows hearts to stayman.

 

I said we need to be in it - not that we would make it. But if partner shows 4+ hearts he will have the chance to make it because I will not invite vulnerable with mostly prime cards.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&e=s853h87643dkq5caq&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1n(12-14)p2cp2sp?]133|200[/hv]

[TylerE]

2N, what else?

[Cyberyeti]

2N, what else?

 

At IMPs yes, at MPs I might consider pass. Not sure what 3♥ is in this auction having started with invitational stayman with the forcing version available, inv 5 bad hearts ?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=sj976ht9dt843ckj3&w=saqt4hk5daj9ct942&n=sk2haqj2d762c8765&e=s853h87643dkq5caq&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=pp1n(12-14)p2cp2sp3hp3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

-2, everyone, except our team mates!, are in 3nt -1or2.

It was an awkward hand to bid, over 2♠ I have to make an invitation, at MPs I pass.

[Stephen Tu]

If you are going to bid stayman in a 2-way stayman structure, you should be bidding 2nt over 2s, not 3H. 3H should be a 6+ bagger inv. If you bid 3H, you are giving partner with a misfitting min a choice between letting you play a lousy 5-2 fit at the 3 level, or 3nt on 12 vs 11.

 

I think passing 1nt is probably best in the long run because your points are in short suits, worth less than if the honors were in hearts. If your club honors were heart honors instead at least then you'd have a chance on 3-3 hearts to make after the opps take the first 4 clubs.

 

[Cyberyeti]

If you are going to bid stayman in a 2-way stayman structure, you should be bidding 2nt over 2s, not 3H. 3H should be a 6+ bagger inv. If you bid 3H, you are giving partner with a misfitting min a choice between letting you play a lousy 5-2 fit at the 3 level, or 3nt on 12 vs 11.

 

I think passing 1nt is probably best in the long run because your points are in short suits, worth less than if the honors were in hearts. If your club honors were heart honors instead at least then you'd have a chance on 3-3 hearts to make after the opps take the first 4 clubs.

 

When I pass, partner has 4 hearts, I don't have an issue with stayman and pass 2♠ or stayman and 2N, bear in mind partner has a maximum and everything is wrong, but you still don't want to be in game.

 

What stayman and 3♥ is depends on what 1N-3♥ is, 6 bagger inv is not impossible.

 

You are right that this is not worth 11 points and partner will need something that fits perfectly to make game good, something like Ax, xxx, AJxxx, Kxx. YOu actually stand much more chance of making game if partner DOESN'T have 4 spades, hence why I'd consider stayman and passing 2♠ but invite over 2♦ or 2♥.

[Stephen Tu]

What stayman and 3♥ is depends on what 1N-3♥ is, 6 bagger inv is not impossible.

 

It's not impossible, but I think it's a quite inferior treatment in a 2-way stayman system. The problem is, not playing transfers, a hard hand to bid is 6+ major slam inv. It's really nice to have the old-fashioned 1nt-3M forcing and slam inv available for that. The problem is if you don't have that available, and have to go through 1nt-2d, partner bids like 2nt/3m, you bid 3h, this has to handle all your bog common gf 5 cd hearts, partner can't cooperate intelligently knowing you have 6 bagger slam try instead of the much more common weaker 5cd GF hands.

 

So I really recommend 2c then 3h over 2s as inv 6+, if playing 2-way stayman. (Over 1nt-2c-2d, I just invite at 2 level, saving 1nt-2c-2d-3M for 5-5 major hands which are also difficult to handle playing 2-way).

 

I have a partnership with an ancient partner who doesn't want to play transfers, so I have thought about/encountered these issues.

[mikeh]

Change my system. Not having transfers available is nigh unplayable in anything above a novice game opp. 12-14.

 

Failing that... it's IMPs and we're red. Invite (at least) seems mandatory. I'd rather just shootout 3N than make a non-forcing bid.

Well, I guess I’m a novice, then.

 

But, as I’ve posted a long time again, playing 2D gf is best done with artificial responses.

 

2D. 2H denies 4 hearts.

 

2D 2S shows 4 H, denies 4 S

 

2D. 2N shows 5 C

 

2D. 3C shows 5 D

 

2D. 3D. Shows 4-4 majors

 

2D 3H shows 2=2=4=5, max

 

2D. 3S shows 2=2=5=4 max

 

2D 3N.shows a min 2245/2254

 

 

Over 2D. 2H, 2S asks

 

Over that

 

2N denies 4 S, now 3C asks exact shape

 

2D. 2H. 2S: 3C shows 4S and 4D

3D shows 4S and 4 C

And so on

 

 

As to the given hand, I don’t.Ike the responding hand but we’re vul at Imps so passing 1N feels wrong.

 

After 2C 2S, it is useful to play that 2N doesn’t deny 5 hearts. Opener should check back via 3H if accepting the invite while holding 3 hearts.

[mycroft]

If we have that last sentence in our agreement (long time since I played 2-way), I'm all for 2♣, then 2NT (if not pass). It's a great agreement, but not one I remember hearing before.