Not your usual 12 count

[jillybean]

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2♣. game forcing, clubs or balanced

2♦, diamonds. Partner isn't balanced and won't have 5♦ unless 6♣ 5♦

 

First 2 rounds of bidding were straight forward, will you bid your spades again to show 7?

[hrothgar]

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2♣. game forcing, clubs or balanced

2♦, diamonds. Partner isn't balanced and won't have 5♦ unless 6♣ 5♦

 

First 2 rounds of bidding were straight forward, will you bid your spades again to show 7?

 

There's an old saying that "Swans play best in the long suit"

I think that this might be the exception to the rule

 

The cards that I really care about are the AK of clubs, and I suspect that seeing clubs as trump will be the best way for me to figure this out.

 

Playing IMPS I think that I'd definitely bid 4♣

 

Tempted to do so at MP as well

[DavidKok]

4♣, we're probably headed for 6♣ but 7 might be on (or, if partner is somewhat broke for the auction, we may have to stop in 5).

[Cyberyeti]

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+♣ ?

[mw64ahw]

I would open North's hand 4♠ (Namyats) so with a self-sustaining suit just bid 4♠.

[smerriman]

If I bid 3♠:

- partner might raise to 4♠, and then what? It could be on a singleton, so I guess we're forced to pass, when grand could easily be on.

- or partner might bid 3N, or 4♣ or 4♦.. all of which I would have regretted not bidding 4♣ the first time.

 

So I'll bid 4♣ now.

[jillybean]

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+♣ ?

Partner could be 1444, with 5 clubs he should bid 3♣/2♠

[mw64ahw]

Yep thinking about it further there's a possible slam there. Are you risking a 4♣ contract by bidding it directly?. Why not cue-bid ♥. If partner takes it to 3NT then a following 4♣ bid indicates the slam try.

[nullve]

First things first:

 

https://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/82267-rebid-with-6m4m-over-1m-2m/

[jillybean]

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4♦ kickback ♣

4♥ 1/4

4♠ Queen ask?

5♠ Yes ♣Q + ♠K

6♣

 

Are we done?

[mikeh]

Can partner be 1444 or is he guaranteeing 5+♣ ?

Surely 1444 bids 2N over 2S

[mycroft]

What's my "1 and a useful void" response to 4♦? I don't play Kickback because there are too many sequences that are a potential misunderstanding (like 4♠ Queen ask when it might be the best-scoring spot, off two aces), so I don't know. But I'm sure there is one - there aren't *fewer* sequences available than playing regular RKC, Shirley?

[jillybean]

What's my "1 and a useful void" response to 4♦? I don't play Kickback because there are too many sequences that are a potential misunderstanding (like 4♠ Queen ask when it might be the best-scoring spot, off two aces), so I don't know. But I'm sure there is one - there aren't *fewer* sequences available than playing regular RKC, Shirley?

5♥ 1/4 with useful void?

[smerriman]

5♥ 1/4 with useful void?

1/3. But yes, it definitely seems worth showing the void here, so I go with that.

[Cyberyeti]

Surely 1444 bids 2N over 2S

 

This was the question I was asking or is that the balanced option of the 2♣ only or do you just treat it as balanced at that point.

[DavidKok]

I would open North's hand 4♠ (Namyats) so with a self-sustaining suit just bid 4♠.

Way too strong for a preempt in my opinion, partner will have no clue what to do if the opponents compete, or with a strong hand.

 

Yep thinking about it further there's a possible slam there. Are you risking a 4♣ contract by bidding it directly?. Why not cue-bid ♥. If partner takes it to 3NT then a following 4♣ bid indicates the slam try.

Bidding hearts now would be ambiguous about the strain, and jumping with hearts would confirm diamonds (for me). Let partner in on the secret that there's a club fit.

 

This was the question I was asking or is that the balanced option of the 2♣ only or do you just treat it as balanced at that point.

On the 2/1 auction 1♠-2♣; 2♠ we have not identified a strain to play in. With 1=4=4=4 and some values in all suits it would be very helpful if partner rebid 2NT, suggesting 3NT as a possible contract. In some sense it's not much different from bidding 1NT over 1♠ with the same distribution.

 

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4♦ kickback ♣

4♥ 1/4

4♠ Queen ask?

5♠ Yes ♣Q + ♠K

6♣

 

Are we done?

Other than the void-showing response already mentioned, it is inconvenient that your partner bids a keycard-asking tool when we are still unlimited. We don't know if their queen ask was an attempt to stop in 5 if she was missing (in which case the proper(?) 5♥ reply to the first question might have already sunk us) or an attempt for 7, but partner was discouraged by the lack of the king of hearts or diamonds. Personally I'd say there's too much uncertainty on the auction to overrule partner and raise on. They decided they knew what they were doing with 4♦, let's hope they were right.

[Winstonm]

When you run out of intelligent ways to investigate grand slam it is time to stop.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=sqhaj74da942cak82&w=s82hkqt953djt85c6&n=sakjt743hdq3cqt43&e=s965h862dk76cj975&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2c(gf%20clubs%20or%20bal)p2sp3dp4cp4dp4hp4sp5sp6c]399|300[/hv]

 

6♣ gave us top board but not the optimal contract.

[mw64ahw]

First things first:

 

https://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/82267-rebid-with-6m4m-over-1m-2m/

My approach to 1M-2♣ aims to define openers strength/shape further

2♦ Min-2♥ asks for responses as below

2♥ 4+other M Min+

2♠ 4+♦ Int+

2NT 6+M Int+ w. void/singleton

--3♣ asks for further definition

----3♦ 4+m

------3♥ Which?

--3X shows short suit

3♣ 4+♣ Int+

3♦ Str+ (semi)balanced

3♥ 5+♥ over 1♠

3M 6+M self-sufficient suit

 

With North's hand you have a Min hcp count, with an MLT < 5.5 so in slam territory if a fit is found.

 

With a self-sustaining suit and a fallback of 4♠ I bid 2NT with the advantage that the opponents will end up knowing little about partners shape

 

1♠-2♣

2NT - 3♣

3♦-3♥

3♠-4♣ SI/GF (given North has shown an Int+ hand) in ♣

etc. using RKC/Kickbo

 

Opening 4♠ gets gets me to 7♠ after South starts a Slam bidding sequence using RKC/Kickbo

[Douglas43]

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6♣ gave us top board but not the optimal contract.

 

If 6♣ gave you a top board then it was the optimal contract.

[DavidKok]

6♣ gave us top board but not the optimal contract.

South should have bid 2NT, and I'm also not a fan of the 4♦. South knows that a source of tricks from North is going to be vital, and the South hand is nothing but keycards. Let partner North ask aces, they will have a near-complete picture of the 52 cards!

Also thank West for not bidding 4♥ over 2♣.

[mikeh]

Partner could be 1444, with 5 clubs he should bid 3♣/2♠

That makes zero sense to me.

 

In essence this makes it almost impossible to find a club fit on many normal hands, since opener can no longer support clubs below 3N, which will often be the best spot when responder is, say, 1=4=3=5 or 1=3=4=5.

 

Use 2N for balanced hands and 1444 and 1345 and 1435. You will not miss clubs since opener will bid 3C over 2N with 4 card club support, and often with 3 card support and concern about a red suit...say 6313 or 6133.

 

3D is a very unusual action. It is a reverse by responder in an already gf auction in which opener will rarely hold strong support for diamonds, since he didn’t bid 2D over 2C. So I’d expect responder to be at least 5=6 in the minors.

 

From responder’s point of view, what the heck was opener to bid over 3D with, say, AKxxxx xx Kx QJx? Or AJxxxx xxx KQx Qx?

 

Cant responder hold x x Axxxx AKxxxx?

 

As for responder using keycards, that breaks a fundamental rule for using keycard: never....never ask for keycards when plausible answers leave one with no idea of what the best contract might be.

 

How on earth can south count tricks on this nightmare of an auction?

 

Keycard is supposed to help one stay out of slam when the values are there but one is missing too many of the keycards and trump Queen or to allow bidding grands. Keycard is not a slam try.

 

1S 2C

2S 2N

4S. 4S shows a long, strong suit...otherwise 3S would be the call on, say, AJxxxxx

 

Now south’s spade Queen is huge, since it fills in north’s suit.

 

South can infer a minimum of 10 tricks opposite AKJxxx and no other high cards. Since opener opened, he definitely has more than this, so the values for slam...in spade...are there and now is an appropriate time to move towards slam, whether by bidding 4N or cuebidding. Since we have all the side aces, cuebidding won’t be productive.

 

I don’t think reaching 7S is likely...neither player can count 13 tricks since south might be Qx AQxx AJxx AJxx, as one example and south doesn’t know about north’s club holding. But 6S has to have play opposite virtually any hand consistent with 1S 2S 4S by opener.

 

Note that some might argue that North should jump to 3S over 2C....however, imo, the spade suit is borderline for that action, which I think should be reserved for those rare hands on which spades are truly solid.

[nige1]

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JillyBean '6♣ gave us top board but not the optimal contract.'

++++++++++++++++++++

Hands transposed to ,make West dealer.

JillyBean did well to reach the slam.

7N seems the best single-dummy contract.

As the cards lie, it makes on a squeeze

[/hv]

[jillybean]

South should have bid 2NT, and I'm also not a fan of the 4♦. South knows that a source of tricks from North is going to be vital, and the South hand is nothing but keycards. Let partner North ask aces, they will have a near-complete picture of the 52 cards!

Also thank West for not bidding 4♥ over 2♣.

I agree that 2NT would have been the best bid, South was reluctant to bid 2NT with the stiff spade.

I'm beginning to think Ace asking is the most misused convention. players often jump to ace ask because they are afraid partner may pass any other bid.

Yes, West let us have a free run here, they could have stuck a ♥ bid in anytime.

[mycroft]

"Ace asking is a tool to avoid bad slams, not a tool to get to good ones."

 

Yes, that means you have to learn other tools, and more judgement to not get passed in forcing bids.

 

Now, Keycard-and-blast is a working strategy, especially at matchpoints; sure you get to some slams with zero quick losers and 11 tricks, but you also don't pinpoint leads and can either make those hopeless slams off an AK, or make 13 where the more scientific are only making 12.