2 club opener the idiot passes

[pmacfar]

Pass is the last thing I would do after a 2♣ opener. With the hand provided, respond 2♦ and see what partner does. If he bids 2♥, rebid 3♣ (2nd negative, less than 3 pts.) If he bids 2NT, pass. you know partner only has 22-23 HCP. the tough one is when he bids 2♠, partner denies having a heart suit, you have 3 card support for his ♠s and he probably has a minor suit for which you have a second suit fit with.

[fifee]

Pass is never an option after a 2♣ opener for my partnerships. In 2/1, 2C is forcing to game or 4 of a minor with no fit, in other systems may only be forcing 1 round with nothing, but stilll absolutely forcing.

 

Partnership trust will fly out the window if I pass 2♣.

[Fluffy]

Passing a forcing bid is something my partners will do only once.

[luke warm]

Passing a forcing bid is something my partners will do only once.

please add "passing a forcing bid ON PURPOSE..." :D

[Gerben42]

Great, it's all this thread's fault. Tonight I had a bad dream. I just started playing relay precision with one of my most regular partners and in the dream I was playing with him and the auction went 1♣ all pass. We did win 3 IMPs on the board though when I made it and the other table the 2♣ was passed out and down one, but still... It wasn't much fun playing the contract, even in my sleep :D

[joker_gib]

Passing a forcing bid is something my partners will do only once.

Same for me :D

 

Alain

[helene_t]

Passing a forcing bid is something my partners will do only once.

please add "passing a forcing bid ON PURPOSE..." :D

I agree. However, I've seen examples by high-esteemed authors, where passing a forcing bid was suggested:

 

Example from Lawrence's 2-o-1 workbook:

1♠-1NT*

3♦-pass**

 

Example from Hoogekamps "5-kaart hoog voor iedereen":

1♣-1♥*

(a reverse or whatever)-pass**

 

*(bid something to scare the opps, or to seek a better part-score)

**(I should have passed before so I pass now)

 

It may be a question of semantics. I think that if there is a single hand (even far-fetched) that may pass in such a situation, it should be termed semi-forcing rather than forcing. Just to avoid diluting forcing bids. (And then one exception remains: if you have psyched, you can sometimes expose your psyche by passing a forcing bid).

 

With this said, passing a 2♣-opening remains unacceptable.

[daswallow]

Passing a 2c opener is clearly ill-advised and will harm partnership trust. I would never even consider it even with the flattest, worst hand possible.

OK, you may gain on occasions, but if you have passed out 2c when partner has a monster he will be furious and will not want to keep the partnership going.

 

The 2c bid is a statement - "Partner, I have a game forcing hand".

Pass is then saying "I don't care what you have!".

 

Incidently I once had my 2c open passed out, as partner (first and last time) thought it was weak after we agreed to play weak 2's, which they weren't too familiar with. :rolleyes:

[awm]

Seems like there are two occasions when passing a forcing bid is acceptable (other than a forget I suppose):

 

(1) When partner previously made a nonforcing call, and I don't have the values for my previous bidding. Examples are auctions like 1♠-1NT-3♦. If I have a zero-count and bid 1NT just to improve the contract, I can now pass 3♦. After all, I could've passed 1♠ -- partner can't have a hand that wants game opposite nothing.

 

(2) It's known that game is out of reach. An example might be (1NT)-2♣ to me... if partner's 2♣ is majors and I have a weak hand with a bunch of clubs, I can pass. I know that there are too many points with the notrump opener (if strong notrumps) for us to have a game on a misfitting hand.

[mike777]

Ok upon further thought and rereading these posts I guess passing 2clubs is best:

1) My bbo partners never have a strong 2club opener anyway, they have overbid.

2) Read on a BBO forum post best to let strong hand be declarer

3) My BBO partner said we are playing weak 2 bids

4) Read on BBO forum when in doubt, pass is best. Pass in not a dirty word, etc.

5) My opp's always balance anyway so now I have described my weak hand best.

6) If we get a good result, that is all that matters. Did not Bob Hamman say winning bridge players make the winning bid not the best or right bid? Let others debate theory I want to win.

7) I always forget what we agreed to play over 2clubs anyway, too many choices.

8) What is all this stuff about partnership harmony and trust anyway? Every partner hated Lew Mathe and he won all the time and they hated him every hand.

9) I thought we agreed to open those hand types at the one level to conserve bidding space.

10) I knew you would have a rebid problem if you opened that hand 2 clubs, NOW THAT I HAVE PASSED DO YOU TRUST ME? YOU REALLY DO HAVE A REBID PROBLEM SEE! :D

[Al_U_Card]

I knew you would have a rebid problem if you opened that hand 2 clubs, NOW THAT I HAVE PASSED DO YOU TRUST ME? YOU REALLY DO HAVE A REBID PROBLEM SEE! 

Best part of the thread...roflmao congrats mike777 hall of flame material....

[Fluffy]

That one really made me laugh, thx mike.

[luke warm]

Ok upon further thought and rereading these posts I guess passing 2clubs is best:

1) My bbo partners never have a strong 2club opener anyway, they have overbid.

2) Read on a BBO forum post best to let strong hand be declarer

3) My BBO partner said we are playing weak 2 bids

4) Read on BBO forum when in doubt, pass is best. Pass in not a dirty word, etc.

5) My opp's always balance anyway so now I have described my weak hand best.

6) If we get a good result, that is all that matters. Did not Bob Hamman say winning bridge players make the winning bid not the best or right bid? Let others debate theory I want to win.

7) I always forget what we agreed to play over 2clubs anyway, too many choices.

8) What is all this stuff about partnership harmony and trust anyway? Every partner hated Lew Mathe and he won all the time and they hated him every hand.

9) I thought we agreed to open those hand types at the one level to conserve bidding space.

10) I knew you would have a rebid problem if you opened that hand 2 clubs, NOW THAT I HAVE PASSED DO YOU TRUST ME? YOU REALLY DO HAVE A REBID PROBLEM SEE! :D

heheheheheh

[JSilver]

you want partners who will let you use your judgement in any situation.

Certainly partner should use his judgment. But if he doesn't have better judgment than to pass a 2♣ opener, then he won't be my partner often.

[Chamaco]

Seems like there are two occasions when passing a forcing bid is acceptable (other than a forget I suppose):

 

(1) When partner previously made a nonforcing call, and I don't have the values for my previous bidding. Examples are auctions like 1♠-1NT-3♦. If I have a zero-count and bid 1NT just to improve the contract, I can now pass 3♦. After all, I could've passed 1♠ -- partner can't have a hand that wants game opposite nothing.

 

Do you realy think this is a good reason to pass a forcing bid ?

Even if you bid 1NT with nothing, well, you got into trouble, you shd have passed even in misfit, but now you have to respond to a forcing bid.

 

I think that if you have made a previous stretch you should have anticipated the problems, and live with them: in any case, if you overbid at previous round, you cannot pass a forcing bid to "fix" your previous error.

 

Passing a forcing bid only turns a partnership game into a "solo" game, I think.

[epeeist]

There seems to be a bit of a mismatch between the title of this thread, "the idiot passes" and the phrasing in the original post, "what do you think of my pass...".

 

So I assume, given the identity of the poster, that sceptic was not the one who passed the 2♣ bid (unless by a misclick :P ). I also assume the bidding system was one in which 2♣ was strong and forcing.

 

Those speculations aside, of course I disagree with the pass EXCEPT if there is other information that might be relevant. Is it the last board in the round of a "total points" tournament in which NS either have a comfortable lead so that it doesn't matter if 2♣ is set? Or contrariwise do NS need fewer than 90 points to win? Then passing the bid might make sense. Even in a "normal" situation, the passer might have reason to believe that the 2♣ bidder mistakenly thinks all 2-level bids are weak because of prior experience with that bidder as a partner, etc. (if so is there an ethical duty to send private chat to opponents that they should ask p about the bid which may be nonstandard?).

 

How I react (after hand over) will depend on p's profile. Novice or beginner I'll be firm but friendly, explaining why it was wrong to pass ("P, in the system we're using, you MUST respond to my bid even if you have zero points -- I could easily have game in my own hand or be void in clubs or the like..."). If an intermediate or better partner passed like this, unless they say after the hand "sorry misclick" or something, I would immediately set them to "enemy". Not only would I, I did, on the only occasion it happened to me... :huh:

[Blofeld]

Oh, Wayne (sceptic) passed 2♣ [as for that matter did I, after ascertaining that there wasn't a misclick - but my pass is perhaps more excusable :P], but I don't think that that's an offence worth making enemies over. It was a poor judgement call, but this was a friendly table and I don't see anything wrong with trying some more erratic ways of bidding hands when in a friendly environment. Apart from anything else, if they're a bad idea, it tends to help give you a better idea of just why they're a bad idea. Hanging people who are deliberately screwing up the game is fine, but he was passing because he honestly thought that that might be the best action. And surely this is the time (if any) to bid like that, rather than in a tournament, for instance?

[Elianna]

Passing a forcing bid only turns a partnership game into a "solo" game, I think.

I think that the point that was trying to be made, is that if you've ALREADY turned a partnership game into a "solo" game (ie, by psyching) then you shouldn't aggravate it more by bidding on.

 

For example, if you open 1NT (usually done in third seat) with a 5=1=3=4 shape, and a 4-count (when you're supposed to have, say, 15-17), then whatever partner does, you could pass.

 

This is different (in my mind only, perhaps) than, say, if you opened 1NT in first or second chair with 15 points, and a 2=2=7=2 shape and decided to pass partner's 2♦ bid because you think that it will play better there.

 

Anyway, this isn't the place to debate if psyching is RIGHT, but I just wanted to point out that I don't believe that the action under consideration is what to do if you stretched by a point to make a bid.

[Al_U_Card]

I never cease to be amazed at the diversity of opinion on what, for me, seem to be fairly straightforward issues......That being said, I respect the diversity of opinion and leave this example; You are blindfolded with hands tied in the middle of a minefield (almost as life and death as most bridge hands....lol) and your spouse is yelling instructions how to get out safely. When they yell "1 step to the left!" you decide that you would rather step to the right.......end of partnership and story and lesson (for now).

[inquiry]

I can think of a situation where I might very well pass a forcing 2♣ opening bid.

 

1) The game almost certainly would have to be matchpoint

2) It is late in the event, and I am fairly certain I need a cold top to win (maybe it is a barometer game, and I know exactly where I stand).

3) I have a very weak hand and a lot of clubs.

 

Here, rather than respond a negative 2♦ or 2♥, I might very well take a chance to create a much needed huge swing by passing. Good bridge? No. We could miss a laydown 4♠ or some such bid by every other pair in the room. But if an average does me no good... I might as well take a calcutated gamble.

 

I think the chances of the right situation coming up is extremely remote however.

 

Ben

[luis]

My view is:

Pass is wrong because 2♣ is forcing, so when a bid is forcing pass is wrong.

Sometimes a wrong bid can be succesful as in this example.

 

What I don't like are the posts saying things like "lose your pd", "won't play with you anymore", etc etc. You guys are spoiled people, you need to play with my pd some seasons and you will become more friendly, more open and a better pd.

 

If my pd passes 2♣, then I play 2♣ and if it was right it was right and if it was wrong it was wrong, I wouldn't make a single comment since pd knows that what he did is wrong but I won't trash him for trying to win and I really welcome some creative decisions from time to time. Even when passing 2♣ lead to disaster the partnership is in a better state, you can't have a better pd than a pd that doesn't say anything when you pass his strong 2♣ opening.

[Blofeld]

I always hate those forum posts which amount to "I agree", but ...

 

... well said, Luis.

[Al_U_Card]

likewise......partner may not always be right, but he is always your partner

[luke warm]

yes, luis is right *but* ... when you open a forcing bid and your partner passes, it has to affect you in the future... you'll have to always know that, regardless of your hand, your partner might take it upon himself to pass... that, on occasion, your partner will unilaterally make himself the captain

[EricK]

yes, luis is right *but* ... when you open a forcing bid and your partner passes, it has to affect you in the future... you'll have to always know that, regardless of your hand, your partner might take it upon himself to pass... that, on occasion, your partner will unilaterally make himself the captain

Why should this affect you more than when eg partner misdefends a hand.

 

Say you open 3♥ opponents get to 6♠ and you lead a ♣. Now this is very likely to be a singleton. What would happen if partner wins his Ace and returns a ♥? Would you never lead a singleton again?

 

If you just make the correct bids and don't worry about partner, then at least one of you will be playing correctly. If you bid something else because of what partner may or may not do then it is guaranteed that one of the partnership is making a mistake - and it is YOU.

 

Eric