Can you realistically bid slam?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=s7hqt93d85cak9743&w=saq98hj72dkj9762c&n=st6532hk65d43cq82&e=skj4ha84daqtcjt65&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1c(3+)p1dp1n(15-17)p2sp3dp]399|300[/hv]

 

Things went awry after the 2♠ bid. We did end up in 3nt for a top= board, but missed our ♦ fit and slam. I think you run out of room for cue bidding and exclusion to ever get to 6♦.

[Cyberyeti]

6♦ is not great and depending on what you play for can go down on the actual layout, on a club lead the dummy reversal looks better than playing for diamonds 2-2 and the second spade gets ruffed. Don't worry about not bidding this one.

 

Actually I realised later you can combine chances and you use your 2 trump entries before your 2 spade entries, means you can claim when they're 2-2 on a club lead before you fall foul of the bad spade break with only matters if trumps are 3-1.

[LBengtsson]

26 high point slam. no worries, I do not bid them :)

[TylerE]

1c-1s-1n-3n

[Cyberyeti]

1c-1s-1n-3n

 

1♣-1♦-1N(15-bad 19)-2♣(crowhurst)-2♦(no 4M, 15-16)-2♠(chunky 4 card suit usually)-3N is how we bid it

 

Offers partner the chance to bid 4♠ potentially the only making game (at least in the 3 heart version) with KJx, xx(x), AQx, AJxx(x)

[mikeh]

Would you want to be in slam if the heart Ace was swapped for the club Jack?

 

Obviously not, and (as you noted) you don’t have room below 3N to do much.

 

Some hands are too tough. Every system has hands that are difficult to impossible and I think this is one for either weak or strong notrump, non-relay methods, and I’m not convinced delay would get there reliably either.

[Winstonm]

I doubt in a large field across multiple sections that not more than 3-4 might get to slam and that might be too high of an estimate. One thought I had is whether or not the 1NT rebid by opener can bypass 4-card majors? If not, then a 3S bid over 2S might help. The only other way - which I admit is awfully deep and likely a case of me resulting - would be for opener to bid 3H over 2S. What would that mean?

 

A case can be made that 3H would infer a strong fit for one of the two suits responder has shown - (or only spades if they were skipped by opener, which means it would be hard to sort out that the support is really for diamonds).

 

On a good day with a favorite partner I might try 3H, and if partner jumped to 4S I think I would sit for it. This would also be a good way to crash and burn.

[ali quarg]

Running it through the machine with East either opening 1♣ as a weak NT (mlt guide 7.5) or 1NT as 15-17 (mlt guide 6.5)

Weak NT mlt 13.5 (marginal slam try w. 3 KCs/void vs. max. and good fit). 15-17hcp mlt 12.5

 

1♣-1♠GF (Weak NT)

1NT-2♣ Staymanish

2♦ (Forced)-2♥ Weak w. 5+♠ or Inv+ w. 4♠

2♠ (no super-accept)-4♣ SI 6+♦&4♠ w. short ♣ happy to stop in 5♦/4♠

4♦ (set trumps)-4♠ (3KCs/void) w. ♠ control denying ♥ control

4NT (♥ control)-5♣ (void)

6♦ (1st round control in all suits w. Q♦

 

I hope the machine was programmed correctly :blink:

 

Not realistic with the A♣ rather than the A♥

[TylerE]

11 trick slam. no worries, I do not bid them :)

 

12 is easy as the cards lie. Pull trump in 2 rounds, play spades, pitch a heart on the 3rd spade. Surrender a heart, ruff a heart.

[Cyberyeti]

12 is easy as the cards lie. Pull trump in 2 rounds, play spades, pitch a heart on the 3rd spade. Surrender a heart, ruff a heart.

 

That is the wrong line but works, all you need is trumps 3-1 and spades 4-2 or trumps 2-2, you have 5 entries to the balanced hand and 4 club ruffs to take to complete the dummy reversal, as long as you take 2 of the first 3 ruffs using trump entries, you will discover trumps are 2-2, but if they're 3-1, and the spades are no worse than 4-2 you can use your 5 entries to hand to ruff 4 clubs and return to draw the last trump so making 7 trumps, 4 spades and a heart.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&b=2&d=w&e=saq98hj72dkj9762c&w=skj4ha84daqtcjt65&a=1N(BAL 14-16 HCP)P2C(ART PUP Stayman)P2D(ART 4 card M)P2H(ART 4 !S)P3N(MAX misfit)PPP]400|300|

JillyBean 'Things went awry after the 2♠ bid. We did end up in 3nt for a top= board, but missed our ♦ fit and slam. I think you run out of room for cue bidding and exclusion to ever get to 6♦.'

++++++++++++++++++++

Auction transposed to make West dealer.

Possible Jasmine Auction to 3N :)

Admittedly, 6♦ is a good contract, succeeding on a dummy-reversal. Win ♥ lead with ♥A. Ruff a ♣. Cross to ♠J. Ruff a ♣. Cross to ♠K. Ruff a ♣. Cross to ♦T. Ruff a ♣. Cash ♦AQ and ♠AQ :)[/hv]

[Cyberyeti]

Admittedly, 6♦ is a good contract (Win ♥ lead. Ruff a ♣. Cross to ♠J. Ruff a ♣, Cross to ♦T, ruff a ♣, Cash [D]AQ and ♠AQ) :)[/hv]

 

That's only 11 tricks (Win ♥ lead. Ruff a ♣. Cross to ♠J. Ruff a ♣, Cross to ♦T, ruff a ♣, cross to ♦Q ruff a club, cross to ♠K, draw the last trump and cash the spades) is 12, you go off if one of the hands is 2533 as a spade gets discarded on the 4th club, if they don't lead a heart you can avoid this by leaving the heart entry as the last one to use and using the 2 spades before you lead the 4th club..

[jillybean]

Would you want to be in slam if the heart Ace was swapped for the club Jack?

If I found partner with values in clubs I would be applying the breaks.

 

Lars, -30 point slams are the most rewarding, and fun to find. I don't get too hung up on points, but perhaps I should pay more attention to them.

[mikeh]

If I found partner with values in clubs I would be applying the breaks.

 

Lars, -30 point slams are the most rewarding, and fun to find. I don't get too hung up on points, but perhaps I should pay more attention to them.

Points don’t take tricks. Cards take t ricks

 

Points are a way to approximate playing strength, but the more the hands are unbalanced, the less reliable hcp are. There are, of course, modifications we are taught to use, intended to help us add distributional ‘points’ to,our evaluation.

 

I don’t use them, and haven’t for at least 30 years

 

Instead I ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ my shapely hands more or less as the auction proceeds....liking if we have a fit, disliking when we don’t or when the opps tell me that their cards are sitting badly for me. And my bids are then more or less encouraging to partner, who uses the same approach.

 

I keep talking about bidding as a dialogue...I must sound like a broken record or a scratched CD, but thinking in terms of what I’m learning from the auction, as opposed to what my hand looks like is, imo, key to developing good judgement

 

Most of us have bid low hcp slams...my best was a 15 count, where we bid slam as a sacrifice, only to find that it was cold. Lol. Most of us will have similar stories.

 

More recently, I held a 5=6 red hand with 9 hcp and partner opened 1D, usually 5+ unless 4441. I spurned the heart suit, made an inverted raise and eventually learned enough to bid 6D on our combined 21 count. He had been able to show me a stiff heart opposite my Axxxx and cuebidding did the rest