Is this a reverse?

[dickiegera]

[hv=pc=n&n=skq64hajda876c875&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1h2c2s]133|200|Is this a reverse showing 17+pts?[/hv]

 

 

 

If so does N have a bid here or should he have passed?

[spotlight7]

[hv=pc=n&n=skq64hajda876c875&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1h2c2s]133|200|Is this a reverse showing 17+pts?[/hv]

 

 

 

If so does N have a bid here or should he have passed?

 

Pass! It would be a reverse showing a strong hand and 4S and 5+ Ds.

[Cyberyeti]

Double is fine if (as we don't) you don't play support doubles in that seat

[sfi]

If so does N have a bid here or should he have passed?

Does North have a hand that wants to force to the three-level opposite a simple response? That's why a reverse generally needs to show extra values.

 

If not, as here, it is often best to pass and let partner get involved if their hand is worth it. I'm ok with a double if it is takeout rather than support, but you still want a reasonable opening hand and this is a minimum for the action.

[mikeh]

Double is fine if (as we don't) you don't play support doubles in that seat

If double is not a support double, be very careful since the standard meaning is penalty. One could agree that it shows spades, but that requires discussion.

 

Even if it did, this is a bad hand on which to do it. The opponents have told you that you have the death holding in clubs.

 

You opened the bidding. All partner did was to respond, in your shortest suit. You have a solid opening hand but nothing out of the ordinary. What’s wrong with pass? You’re not missing anything much if he can’t reopen the bidding.

 

Once in a while, you miss a 2S partial that makes or pushes them to a failing 3C but trying to gain the best possible result on every hand leads to very bad bridge. As skid Simon wrote, many years ago, seek instead the best result possible

 

Meanwhile, to answer the OP, yes, 2S is a reverse

[Cyberyeti]

If double is not a support double, be very careful since the standard meaning is penalty. One could agree that it shows spades, but that requires discussion.

 

Even if it did, this is a bad hand on which to do it. The opponents have told you that you have the death holding in clubs.

 

You opened the bidding. All partner did was to respond, in your shortest suit. You have a solid opening hand but nothing out of the ordinary. What’s wrong with pass? You’re not missing anything much if he can’t reopen the bidding.

 

Once in a while, you miss a 2S partial that makes or pushes them to a failing 3C but trying to gain the best possible result on every hand leads to very bad bridge. As skid Simon wrote, many years ago, seek instead the best result possible

 

Meanwhile, to answer the OP, yes, 2S is a reverse

 

Well I can't have this exact hand because I opened it 1N, but any one point more this is a no brainer double for us, never heard of this double being penalty and certainly isn't for us.

 

We have at least half the deck 90%+ of the time, I'm going to compete. I have a 14 count rather than the 10 or 11 it might be and a spade suit.

[pescetom]

I too am puzzled about double being penalty here. Surely we are both unlimited so far?

[mikeh]

I too am puzzled about double being penalty here. Surely we are both unlimited so far?

I play support doubles here, so I’m not arguing for it being penalty. I’m merely pointing out that the traditional meaning was penalty. Playing it as takeout only makes sense if it shows 4 spades. All other holdings can be shown by bidding or passing, so it’s an agreement one could have.

 

As for being unlimited, I don’t understand the argument. We opened the bidding. Passing doesn’t suddenly announce that we psyched. Passing doesn’t deny an opening bid. As for partner, since he is unlimited, but may have a very weak hand, I suggest that we allow him to look at his hand and make the call that makes sense to him. That may even be to pass it out, and believe it or not, that might well be the best action. Or have we ignored our xxx in clubs?

 

Say we held Axx x AKxxx KJ10x. I suspect that we’d see a lot of posters claiming that double was clear. I’m not arguing that playing it as penalty is optimal, but there are many aspects of bridge in which the ‘standard’ meaning is an historical remnant. In much of the bridge world, playing a high spot is encouraging or showing an even number of cards...standard signals. Yet upside down attitude is without doubt a better treatment. The point is that one needs to bear in mind that we cannot choose a meaning just because, on a given hand, we’d like the bid to have that meaning. We see a lot of that sort of thinking on these forums. Go back 40 years, and all experienced players would know that the standard meaning was penalty. Many players have developed different agreements but they are agreements not to play the standard meaning.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&n=skq64hajda876c875&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1h2c2s]133|200|

DickiGera 'Is this a reverse showing 17+pts?dickiegera 'If so does N have a bid here or should he have passed?'

+++++++++++++++++++

I rank

1. Pass = NAT Stay fixed. By far the best call here.

2. Double = ART Support showing 3♥ playing with GIB. Or PEN with no agreement.

3. 2♠ = NAT by agreement (Undiscussed this would be a reverse).[/hv]

[mycroft]

I like it when the opponents help me limit my (12-21, 3-7 ♦) hand. When they give you the chance, take it! Then when or if it comes around to you again, you can do what you like, knowing that partner knows you don't have extras.

 

One of the biggest reasons for the almost ubiquitous strong NT is it divides your balanced hands that you have to open in a suit into distinct ranges - 11+-14 and 18-19. When you have the weaker of those ranges, you should be happy to show it.

 

Now if partner won't come back in, and you're defending 2♣ in auctions like these with 3NT, or 3♥ or 3♦ (or even 3♠) on - that's a problem. But it's a different problem.

 

Pass and be glad. If you think your hand is too good to pass now (which I can see, even if I am not sure I agree), then it was too good to open 1♦ - it should have been upgraded into 1NT.

[blackshoe]

I would not upgrade that hand. It's a decent 14 count, but that's all.

[Douglas43]

Weak NT anybody? If partner has five hearts he'll have started a transfer shutting out 2C, and if not he's still got the opportunity for a balancing double.

[Zelandakh]

If double is not a support double, be very careful since the standard meaning is penalty.

Not convinced about this statement Mike - if I recall Culbertson's rules correctly, this is not defined as a penalty double as it is the first opportunity of doubling the opps' suit and we have no fit. It has been a while though so perhaps I am forgetting something. I do agree with you about it being a clear Pass in a SNT system, which is the more important point.