None Flash Version not fit for purpose

[dave251164]

Now the Flash version has been blocked, I've been forced to try the new version.

It is absolutely awful and really not fit for purpose! The layout is terrible, the cards stutter before playing when you click on them and in the $Reward Race I just tried, it just sat there in the middle of a hand and wouldn't play a card! Speed tourneys are impossible and there's no bingos either, not that the new version works well enough to play anything at speed even if they had been set up.

You have to click, sometimes multiple times to see things that were just there on screen before - like who is in front and behind you in races and by how much.

The new version is an apallingly bad replacement for what was a much better version and I would be surprised if the programmers had ever played bridge races to get it so wrong!

[pilowsky]

The problems with Flash are well-known.

The new version has problems, but these can be overcome.

The first thing I would check is that you have a good internet connection. Mine is not that great ATM with upload speeds dropping to around 15 sometimes.

This is a teething problem with the NBN in Australia - I expect it to get better soon.

In the meantime you can use speedtest.net to check your connectivity and complain to your carrier - they are usually easy to contact and super helpful (yes, that's a joke).

[DaveB]

I would like to support the original poster.

I too was forced to move yesterday to the "new improved" (joke!!) non flash version and the experience was simply horrible!!

 

And no that was not down to my internet connection.

 

I understand that flash is no longer supported but why replace a really good interface with the current abomination?

[hrothgar]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71uddE%2BSRvL._SY679_.jpg

[mycroft]

I have to admit, I have less than my usual sympathy here. Some, sure.

 

BBO has been saying for at least 18 months that "flash is going away EOY 2020, we are no longer developing it, please move to the new version"; and have made it harder and harder to use the flash version, so that people had to deliberately choose to ignore their recommendations. I moved to the HTML5 version I think Nov 2019, not because I liked it, but because I knew I'd have to learn it eventually, might as well be now.

 

Is the HTML5 version worse than the flash version? IME, yes. There certainly are major missing bits (that don't generally impact 4-human play), the interface is clunky (as you would expect when using a mobile interface on a 28" widescreen), and all the rest. But the time to find this out and complain about it was March when we all went online, not "oh I don't want to learn something new, I'll go out of my way to use the version I understand, *even though I know I'm going to have to do it eventually, and it's not BBO's fault*".

 

The time to point out the issues, with maybe a hope of getting them implemented, was last year. If it wasn't for the massive server-side issues caused by an overnight quadrupling of use, totally unplannable for, more of the pointed out issues would probably even have been fixed. (Paid requests also seem to have got a higher priority than user-side issues. <s>I can't imagine why.</s>)

 

But this isn't like Microsoft Creator's Update or Google [anything], where you could wake up tomorrow with a new UI that's "easier to use". Both BBO and your browser have been telling everyone that this is happening since in-person NABCs (including in discussions at those in-person NABCs). If you deliberately wait until the last day...

[hrothgar]

I have to admit, I have less than my usual sympathy here. Some, sure.

 

 

This isn't an issue with the UI being confusing or even the UI sucking.

 

The app freezes and eats RAM

[mycroft]

That's a real problem. But it's the first I've heard of it. Now I don't play Robot anything, so a lot of the problems I've heard about I don't even understand, never mind have run into.

 

But whether or not I'm affected by it, if I don't remember seeing memory leak/hog being reported before (while I'm not your average BBO user, I'm also not your average BBO forum user), that points to what I said...the time to switch over, to find this kind of thing, to complain and go back, to try again in a month or two - was last year, when one could. That too many people took the "is different. No like different. Fight to keep same." path is still at least partly the problem.

 

I'm not a "rah rah new" person - I run linux off the command line and i3wm, by preference, for Bob's sake. I work very hard, when I have to use Windows, to set it up the way I remember things working - that means a lot of it reacts like XP. I am picture-blind; if I have to use a screen full of icons, I learn where they are, not what "what I want to do" looks like. When that gets moved around for "more user-friendly", it destroys my screenmap patterns for months. "Is different" for me is *bad*. But when faced with "in 18 months, for no reason we can control, Ye Olde is Going Away, it's time now to get used to The New", either you get used to The New gradually, or you get used to The New all at once, with no safe shell to go back to between attempts.

 

I'm also not a BBO zealot (though I may look like one). I'm guessing that competitors are going to be a whole bunch more "is different" than Flash-to-HTML5 version of BBO. I am also confident in the Monastery Mantra: All Hardware Sucks, All Software Sucks. The competitors are going to get stuff right that BBO doesn't; and they're going to invent new and more exciting ways to suck (and reinvent many that BBO used to have). If they get the right things right, and the less-damaging things wrong, and BBO doesn't keep up, they'll win. If not, they'll be the example of what not to do for the next competitor. ISTR a little programmer that could doing just that (and winning) 25 years ago or so. I think his name was Fred?

[hawkwind]

I continued to use the Flash version because it offered reliability (think production versus test) and superior user experience.

 

Every few weeks I would try the HTML version to see whether it had progressed from 'test'.

 

I understand that the ending of Flash support is completely out of BBO hands but that doesn't impose an obligation on BBO users to silently accept whatever alternative version is offered.

 

To list a few particular things I dislike with the HTML version:

 

Regular freezes/blocks. I have never managed an HTML session of more than 30 minutes without this happening at least once. Resolution: close everything else and if that doesn't work log out and re log in.

 

Speed. Everything on the HTML version appears to take longer than the Flash version. Playing a card for example on Flash version instantaneous reaction, on HTML version delay of up to a second?

 

Playing at a table. Occasionally most dummy cards being hidden blocking play. Resolution: Logging out and re logging in.

 

Playing. No option to have cards the slimmer size. (HTML version imposes where Flash version user configurable).

 

Language version imposed in HTML. (Flash version user configurable).

 

Bidding disappears when cardplay begins. (Flash version visible throughout). Yes, I know that matches f2f but my environment doesn't. I'm playing on BBO at home not in a club or competition.

 

Now it may be that some of the above 'missing' functionality is actually available but I'm just unaware, in which case hopefully someone can point me in the direction of a BBO HTML versus BBO Flash comparison document.

[Lovely007]

Now the Flash version has been blocked, I've been forced to try the new version.

It is absolutely awful and really not fit for purpose! The layout is terrible, the cards stutter before playing when you click on them and in the $Reward Race I just tried, it just sat there in the middle of a hand and wouldn't play a card! Speed tourneys are impossible and there's no bingos either, not that the new version works well enough to play anything at speed even if they had been set up.

You have to click, sometimes multiple times to see things that were just there on screen before - like who is in front and behind you in races and by how much.

The new version is an apallingly bad replacement for what was a much better version and I would be surprised if the programmers had ever played bridge races to get it so wrong!

100% agee with Dave dreadful

[Lovely007]

All these years playing bingos and having fun gone.

Who designed this new site ? Its dreadful and its not because of change it really is frustrating to play and not adding our favourite tourneys is a double whammy.Thats it for me.Wasted lots of money to get to this point how sad,Just when we needed some fun gone:(

[mycroft]

Hawkwind: thank you.

 

I think I can get you a couple of things.

 

Not sure what dummy's cards are being hidden behind, but it's frequently "explanation of opponent's bid". In which case, click on the explanation - but not the button, that reasks - and it should go away. Similarly, if you looked at the last trick, clicking anywhere in that last trick will clear that window.

 

You can always see the auction during the play by clicking the contract on the left side. It will show up on top of dummy :-(

 

This topic has two ways to set your language preference.

[DaveB]

Please correct me if I am wrong as I have no pretensions to being an expert in this area.

 

The fact that Adobe has withdrawn support from Flash does NOT mean that it has stopped functioning.

As long as the players were using a browser version that had not had flash support withdrawn BBO could continue offering the "old" version rather than imposing their "one size fits all" policy.

[barmar]

As long as the players were using a browser version that had not had flash support withdrawn BBO could continue offering the "old" version rather than imposing their "one size fits all" policy.

Starting a few days ago, my Chrome browser refused to run Flash applications. When I tried to run V2 it showed the dialogue asking me to allow it, but when I clicked on "Allow" it displayed an error page of some kind.

 

Yesterday there was an update, but this started a day or two before that.

[sfi]

From memory, on the 13th Adobe actively blocked all access to Flash technology. It's no longer even just a browser incompatibility or vendor support - the obsolescence was built into Flash itself.

[johnu]

The time to point out the issues, with maybe a hope of getting them implemented, was last year. If it wasn't for the massive server-side issues caused by an overnight quadrupling of use, totally unplannable for, more of the pointed out issues would probably even have been fixed. (Paid requests also seem to have got a higher priority than user-side issues. <s>I can't imagine why.

:lol:

[dave251164]

Hawkwind:

Regular freezes/blocks. I have never managed an HTML session of more than 30 minutes without this happening at least once. Resolution: close everything else and if that doesn't work log out and re log in.

Speed. Everything on the HTML version appears to take longer than the Flash version. Playing a card for example on Flash version instantaneous reaction, on HTML version delay of up to a second?

 

I couldn't agree more Hawkwind!

[DaveB]

Please correct me if I am wrong as I have no pretensions to being an expert in this area.

 

The fact that Adobe has withdrawn support from Flash does NOT mean that it has stopped functioning.

As long as the players were using a browser version that had not had flash support withdrawn BBO could continue offering the "old" version rather than imposing their "one size fits all" policy.

 

 

I hold my hand up and apologise and accept that I was totally wrong with the above assertion.

[sfi]

I hold my hand up and apologise and accept that I was totally wrong with the above assertion.

In your defence, it's rare that a technology is actually removed in this way. Letting it fade away is much more common.

[hawkwind]

Hawkwind: thank you.

 

I think I can get you a couple of things.

 

Not sure what dummy's cards are being hidden behind, but it's frequently "explanation of opponent's bid". In which case, click on the explanation - but not the button, that reasks - and it should go away. Similarly, if you looked at the last trick, clicking anywhere in that last trick will clear that window.

 

You can always see the auction during the play by clicking the contract on the left side. It will show up on top of dummy :-(

 

This topic has two ways to set your language preference.

 

Thanks.

[pilowsky]

Notwithstanding, the program does have a few bugs (I'm not talking about the quality of play).

Sometimes the animation explaining the meaning of a bid will 'stick' and then the next animation appears underneath it rendering it invisible.

The quick workaround for this that I know of is to leave the game and then go back in.

This kind of 'stickiness' occurs in other situations as well.

Sometimes the robots 'refuse to play or bid' - I assume that this is some sort of 'time-out' error - it also goes away when I leave and go back. Although once it stuck completely and the game was abandoned.

 

Apparently, the developers keep a list of these reports and work through them - or around them?

 

In a way, it adds a bit of verisimilitude to the game. Sometimes people behave in pretty strange ways.

 

Unfortunately, they rarely give you back your entry fee.

[dave251164]

Just tried playing in another $Reward race with only about 10,000 people showing as online to see if there would be less issues with fewer people playing.

Still had lots of freezes in the bidding and play - some very long.

Logging out worked and got it going, but not for long!

I was so fed up and so far behind already that I left yet again.

If BBO tourneys can't even function properly without freezing and going slow when there are so few players using it, then it really is not fit for purpose.

[tobinator]

 

Is the HTML5 version worse than the flash version? IME, yes. There certainly are major missing bits (that don't generally impact 4-human play), the interface is clunky (as you would expect when using a mobile interface on a 28" widescreen), and all the rest. But the time to find this out and complain about it was March when we all went online, not "oh I don't want to learn something new, I'll go out of my way to use the version I understand, *even though I know I'm going to have to do it eventually, and it's not BBO's fault*".

 

Sure I understand that but also in 18 months they've created something which is nowhere near as higher quality as the flash client. I don't think the problem was lack of feedback, the interface is unbelievably bad in comparison on widescreen it's clear to anyone. It just lacked the necessary resources put into it (which isn't even that much). The "oh I don't want to learn something new" argument I'm normally on board with but in this case I don't think it makes sense. You want people to switch to something that's clearly worse - people are clearly going to keep on using the better client as long as possible.

 

I'm extremely thankful to BBO for a great product they've developed and the incredible amount of enjoyment I've had over the years but I don't understand why there's all of a sudden such a massive drop off in standard. There are other low budget sites that are extremely slick e.g. Lichess.org You don't have to spend that much money to get a well functioning good looking website

[pilowsky]

It's worth remembering that over the last 12 months a few other things have cropped up that may have made things a little difficult for BBO in its constant quest for perfection.

[mycroft]

The point is, that people played once with the new client, went "oh, this is bad, I'm going back to my security blanket flash version", when BBO made it harder to find, hit the new one once, freaked out, and took pains to find their old comfort, were warned "this is going away", and said "I'll deal with it later".

 

As opposed to, say, trying things then, finding out what's new (and therefore bad) but I can get used to it, and what's new (and actually bad) and reporting it so that they had a year to deal with them (okay, something else happened that slowed this down too, but still). Which might have changed the priority trees back then when it could get fixed, or now because it's a "long-standing issue" rather than a new one people are just now complaining about.

 

And sure, it might be a new issue people are complaining about now because of something heavier in the HTML interface that now that 30 000 users are using it instead of 15 and 15 flash, it's worse. But again, if people hadn't stayed away in droves and instead tried to help make it better for the eventual, the load would have been more 25 and 5 flash back in September and these things might have been found then.

 

I see several people complaining about things in the new version, and that these things *have* *to be* *fixed* *NOW*. Oddly enough - different things from different people (all important, I'm not denying that). And I have mine, too, I will admit (on the other hand, I have commented on them as threads came up, for the last 18 months). So the question becomes, what priority do they pick? And the answer, I'm afraid, is, as always, "whichever priority the people paying me/paying us set", with caveats for "okay, we're going to do a rollout Friday, let's see if we can kill off a couple of 'simple' ones without further destabilizing the rollout while we're here" I'm sure.

 

I wonder if the people that are truly upset about this can get the rogue China version, and will it work? And how long until malware attacks on those pirate versions (or backdoors installed by the CCP into those pirate versions) cause worse problems than slow bridge?

[pilowsky]

...

 

I wonder if the people that are truly upset about this can get the rogue China version, and will it work? And how long until malware attacks on those pirate versions (or backdoors installed by the CCP into those pirate versions) cause worse problems than slow bridge?

 

During the Cold War (Pre-climate change?) spies would insert devices into typewriters that would report every keystroke.

People complain constantly about the risk of software problems while using computers manufactured in countries that interested in knowing about what you are doing.

 

Secretary of State McNamara once famously observed that there is only one secret in the world - the location of the American nuclear submarines. I wonder if that is still true.

 

There seems to be a constant anxiety about privacy in a world where there really isn't any.

 

If there was an English language version of Qiaopai (tchowpay) available, would you be scared to play it?