rebid 1S or 1NT?

[dragon11]

I hold this hand,how do I rebid?

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sj972ha54dk53ca54]133|100|[/hv]

 

west north east south(me)

　　　　P　　P　　1C

　p　　1H　　P　1S/1NT?

 

tell me pls.

 

 

wayne.

[Walddk]

Everything is a matter of agreement, but my rebid is 1NT. I bypass a major (sometimes even two) to show 12-14 balanced.

 

Advantages:

1. Partner knows I have a balanced hand if I rebid 1NT, and if he is strong enough (at least invitational values) he can check back for a possible major suit fit.

 

2. If I rebid 1MA, partner knows I am unbalanced (5-4, maybe 6-4 or some 4441 patterns), but always unbalanced.

 

Disadvantage:

You may miss a partial in a major suit when responder is not strong enough to bid on over 1NT.

 

Roland

[Finch]

Whatever you and your partner have agreed is the correct rebid on this hand.

There is no "standard" answer, I believe.

 

English 5CM players all rebid (or open) 1NT.

[microcap]

I like questions like this that seem simple and come up a lot but offer a bunch of difficult choices. Can I cast a vote for option 3, which is PASS! Partner is a passed hand, and you have a 12 point hand that I would pass in 1st and 2nd position [And there are days when I would pass this in 3rd hand!]. So I don't see missing game as possible. Pass wins anytime partner has 5 or more hearts. The only time it loses to spades is win partner is exactly 4-4. As to NT, you have no spots and no 5 card suit, and what values you do have are valuable in suit play. So my best guess is that one♥ plays no worse than 1NT most of the time. It also has the singular virtue of telling your partner that you have utter squadoosh, and partner will not be tempted to invite 2NT with 11-12 points.

[helene_t]

I would certainly bid 1NT with this hand. A more controversial issue is if you should rebid 1NT with all ballanced hands, or if you are allowed to bid 1♠ with some ballanced hands, e.g. in order to right-side a 3NT contract.

 

A lot can be said about the pros and cons of both approaches, and it also depends on you agreements about the meaning of 1♠ (limmited to 17 HCPs?) and your agreements about partner's 1♥ (could he have bypassed a longer diamond suit?). Some would bid 1NT at IMPs and 1♠ at matchpoints, on the basis of the idea that at matchpoints 1♠ or 2♠ may be the best part-score and you are not so interested in showing a five-card clubs.

 

If 1NT denies a four-card spades, the opps can use that information when defending. I think that the cases for bidding 1NT with all ballanced hands are stronger. Just my opinion.

[mr1303]

I'll pass this every time, since partner didn't open in 1st/2nd. I don't want him to make a game try, since we won't make one.

 

However, in 1st/2nd if I opened, I'll bid 1NT. I don't want to play in a 3-2 fit if partner puts me back to 2C

[P_Marlowe]

Hi

 

1S.

 

It's just a matter of partnership aggrement.

 

One of the problems with 1 NT is, that your

partner may correct to 2C feeling that you

promised a 4 card suit.

And this contract may play better than 1 NT,

no big deal in MP, but playing IMP's, you look for

the safer contract.

He may even compete to 3C in case the opps

enter the bidding with diamonds.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

Std rebid on natural methods is 1♠ I think, you can bypass it because of the flat thing, and to help partner rebid his 5♥, but I think it is not good in the long run.

[dragon11]

thank all for your replies(I especially agree with Roland).

 

but the whole things as follow:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sq1084hkqj76dq98c9&w=sk6h1083da102cqj1087&e=sa53h92dj764ck632&s=sj972ha54dk53ca54]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

 

 

west north east south(me)

　　　　P　　P　　1C

　p　　1H　　P　　1NT

　P　　2NT　P　　　P

　P

 

In fact, we almost lost a 4H/4S game.who is wrong here?

 

thank again

 

wayne

[inquiry]

1NT for me

[mr1303]

One of the problems with 1 NT is, that your

partner may correct to 2C feeling that you

promised a 4 card suit.

And this contract may play better than 1 NT,

no big deal in MP, but playing IMP's, you look for

the safer contract.

He may even compete to 3C in case the opps

enter the bidding with diamonds.

 

Why might this not happen if you bid 1S?

 

If anything I think the risk is greater if you bid 1S, since a lot of people play that this shows an unbalanced hand.

[microcap]

I don't think 4♥ is ever making on this layout--2♠ and 2♦ losers. 4♠ has much better chances though it could go down on best defense-- But one of the other virtues of pass is that opps will balance in many cases--probably 2♣ here for instance. Now there are a variety of ways for both of you to get back in the auction with less risk as you are both limited.

[Walddk]

[P_Marlowe]

One of the problems with 1 NT is, that your

partner may correct to 2C feeling that you

promised a 4 card suit.

And this contract may play better than 1 NT,

no big deal in MP, but playing IMP's, you look for

the safer contract.

He may even compete to 3C in case the opps

enter the bidding with diamonds.

 

Why might this not happen if you bid 1S?

 

If anything I think the risk is greater if you bid 1S, since a lot of people play that this shows an unbalanced hand.

Hi,

 

as I said, this depends on your partnership

agreements.

I dont play walsh, so 1S does not promises

an unbal. opener for me.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Walddk]

I dont play walsh, so 1S does not promises

an unbal. opener for me.

I don't play Walsh with all partners, but I still play 1x - 1y ; 1MA as an unbalanced hand.

 

Roland

[Free]

I also prefer 1NT rebids, even with a 4432 distribution. As Roland said, from the moment partner is invitational or stronger we won't miss the fit tnx to checkback.

 

Now, for what's wrong in your auction, imo it's pretty clear that the 2NT bid is completely wrong. Partner already passed, so he can even reverse 2♠ to show his hand. But imo it's still best to use 2♣ Checkback in these situations, you can show your hand very nicely!

[toothbrush]

I would pass on 1♥ and hope opps bid ♠! No game possibilities imo, so stay as low as possible. For 1NT you need a good suit somewhere and you have bullshit (only 2tricks in your hand).

The north hand is an opening worth i believe, but that's also partnership-agreement. If you're used to pass with such strong hands as north I believe south has to bid once more and I think 1♠ is the correct bid then.

[Finch]

You don't need any sophisticated methods such as NMF or checkback or 2-way checkback. The problem is that partner apparently didn't think you could have 4 spades for the 1NT rebid, or he would simply have bid 2S over 1NT (which you could have passed if you wanted, as he is a passed hand)

[mike777]

Pass 1H

[HeartA]

1NT.

 

As for the hand, the bidding could go:

 

1C-1H

1N-2C (xyz)

2H(S)-...

2H or 2S depends on agreement. I prefer 2H though.

[luke warm]

i wish i'd opened 1nt, then there'd be less to worry about.. i'd pass 1♥, even tho roland is right that game is possible.. not vul at ???

[Fluffy]

I dont play walsh, so 1S does not promises

an unbal. opener for me.

I don't play Walsh with all partners, but I still play 1x - 1y ; 1MA as an unbalanced hand.

 

Roland

Interesting, I play walsh with all my partners but I still play 1♣-1♥-1♠ as 3+♣

[civill]

thank all for your replies(I especially agree with Roland).

 

west north east south(me)

　　　　P　　P　　1C

　p　　1H　　P　　1NT

　P　　2NT　P　　　P

　P

 

In fact, we almost lost a 4H/4S game.who is wrong here?

 

thank again

 

wayne

As I know,the "Rule of Opening points" may help your bidding.How about this sequence?

 

N E S

1H - ?

[Winstonm]

we almost lost a 4H/4S game.who is wrong here?

 

You bring a good problem/question to the table. Here are my views for what they are worth.

 

First, 4333 distribution was born in No-trump-land; it doesn't like to move to Heart-land, Spadeland, or any other suit-land; in fact, a suit rebid with this is Never-never-land. This is even more true with a bad spade suit and good cards in all the rest.

 

Second, in the Milton Point Count, Aces are 'seriously' undervalued and Kings are 'a bit' undervalued, so with two Aces and a King, this is NOT simply a 12-point hand - more like a 14 count. Pard may have passed a 10-11 count not quite up to the parnership's opening standards, so game is NOT out of question; therefore it is totally reasonable to rebid 1NT on this hand.

 

Third, with the 1N rebid, partner should be able to 'visualize' a game opposite the perfect minimum hand (yours), and therefore is 'entitled' to make a game try. Most here play the new minor at the 2-level ask for 3-card support. Once this 5/3 fit is found, reaching game on the good distribuional values in the north hand should be routine.

 

Those are my views.

 

WinstonM

[helene_t]

I dont play walsh, so 1S does not promises

an unbal. opener for me.

I don't play Walsh with all partners, but I still play 1x - 1y ; 1MA as an unbalanced hand.

 

Roland

Interesting, I play walsh with all my partners but I still play 1♣-1♥-1♠ as 3+♣

"Walsh" means that a rebid of a suit at the one-level shows an unballanced hand, but often it is implicit that it applies only to the rebid after 1♣-1♦.

 

One of the consequences of this is that responder must show a 4-card major immediately after a 1♣ opening, even with a 5- or 6-card diamonds, unless he's strong enough to reverse (if you play a weak 1NT and a reverse is not GF, it barely influences the responses to 1♣). You can agree that responder can show his diamond suit later or you can agree just to let the diamond suit go.

 

Even if you don't play Walsh, you can bypass a four-card or a mediocre 5-card diamonds if you want.

 

It is a popular misconception that not playing Walsh is the same as bidding fourcards up-the-line.