missing grand slam

[portia2]

After partner opens 1N (15-17), you know you have a slam but when RHO intervenes with 4H, what should you bid? What would 4N, 5N or 5H mean?

 

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[smerriman]

If a partnership has discussed how to handle this situation, well done to them. I don't have the slightest clue what any bid means here.

 

So I'll just make something up on the spot and bid 5♥, intending it to mean "please don't pass". If partner bids spades, then I'll bid 7♣. Since I didn't bid 7♣ the first time, I'll hope they'll figure out that I may be wanting them to correct to diamonds if more suitable.

[helene_t]

4N is often minors and probably should be here. There's a risk that partner will take it as natural but I think a natural 4nt hand is rare, and when you have one, dbl is a reasonable alternative.

5h I dunno, maybe slamtry with spades. 5nt is often pick-a-slam so maybe a 4045 hand.

[helene_t]

4N is often minors and probably should be here. There's a risk that partner will take it as natural but I think a natural 4nt hand is rare, and when you have one, dbl is a reasonable alternative.

5h I dunno, maybe slamtry with spades. 5nt is often pick-a-slam so maybe a 4045 hand.

[DavidKok]

4NT for the minors seems sensible. Partner is informed by the bidding that there are some shapely hands on this deal, so it makes more sense for this to be minors than natural. As a general rule, on competitive auctions it is good to have bidding methods for finding the right suit, rather than the right level or 6NT. After partner obligingly picks a minor I'm bidding 5♥, and if partner can cooperate with 5♠ I could either bid the grand or try 5NT ('Do you have extras?'), but chances are good I'll have to raise to 7 on my own regardless. That seems odds-on, with 2.5 losers opposite an average 7 and first and second round control in all suits. Of course if partner bypasses 5♠ I'm happy to sit in 6m.

[Tramticket]

I have 20 HCPs. Partner has 15-17 HCPs. Opponents have 3-5 HCPs. South doesn't have a lot for the 4♥ bid, but it is most likely that any points are in hearts.

 

I expect a Grand Slam to make. 4NT should probably show the minors, but why give partner that problem? There is a lot to be said for a simple 7♦ bid. You may even get a trump lead. But 5♥ is forcing and smerriman's plan seems as good as any.

[portia2]

4N is often minors and probably should be here. There's a risk that partner will take it as natural but I think a natural 4nt hand is rare, and when you have one, dbl is a reasonable alternative.

5h I dunno, maybe slamtry with spades. 5nt is often pick-a-slam so maybe a 4045 hand.

 

If 4N is for minors, what would you do with a balanced 16 point hand with stoppers in hearts?

[Cyberyeti]

You want to engineer partner declaring this hand, it is quite likely the preempter is void in one of the minors and LHO has 5, a trick 1 ruff would be unfortunate.

 

I would bid 5♥ and if partner bids 5♠ bid 5N it could easily be that 7N is the spot opposite say AJxx, AJx, Qxx, QJx where 7♣ and ♦ can both fail to a 5-0 break in one of the minors either because of a trump loser or a ruff if I declare.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&w=skq6hdakj95cak876&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=1n(15-17)4h?]133|200| portia2 'After partner opens 1N (15-17), you know you have a slam but when RHO intervenes with 4H, what should you bid? What would 4N, 5N or 5H mean?'

++++++++++++++++++++

1. 5♥ = Consultative and forward going.

2. 5N = Suggests more than 1 place to play.

3, 7m = Unilateral

4. 4N = Torture partner (unless you've discussed this kind of auction).

[/hv]

[hrothgar]

So, I'm guessing that the following is't going to be popular, but

 

I have 20 points

Partner has a minimum of 15

 

RHO MUST have points in Hearts for a vulnerable four level overcall.

 

If we place RHO with KQ or AJ of Hearts then parter can not have a Diamond holding that is worse than Qx

 

And, those J9 of Diamonds are incredibly bid cards.

 

I am sorely tempted to just bid 7♦

[AL78]

So, I'm guessing that the following is't going to be popular, but

 

I have 20 points

Partner has a minimum of 15

 

RHO MUST have points in Hearts for a vulnerable four level overcall.

 

If we place RHO with KQ or AJ of Hearts then parter can not have a Diamond holding that is worse than Qx

 

And, those J9 of Diamonds are incredibly bid cards.

 

I am sorely tempted to just bid 7♦

 

This is logical. If RHO holds five HCP in hearts, partner has the rest, so they have the DQ, CQJ, and the SA, which means there are likely 13 tricks in either minor.

[Cyberyeti]

This is logical. If RHO holds five HCP in hearts, partner has the rest, so they have the DQ, CQJ, and the SA, which means there are likely 13 tricks in either minor.

 

And this your honour is how I went -2 when overcaller turned out to have 10 hearts to the J10 and out.

[smerriman]

This is logical. If RHO holds five HCP in hearts, partner has the rest, so they have the DQ, CQJ, and the SA, which means there are likely 13 tricks in either minor.

That was my logic in terms of the high card points, but don't forget vulnerable RHO is also likely to be extremely long in hearts, so it's likely that at least one of the minors is breaking very badly for us. So some way of offering a partner a choice seems worth it.

[TylerE]

If 4N is for minors, what would you do with a balanced 16 point hand with stoppers in hearts?

 

Take the money (X)

[helene_t]

If 4N is for minors, what would you do with a balanced 16 point hand with stoppers in hearts?

Dbl.

[hrothgar]

That was my logic in terms of the high card points, but don't forget vulnerable RHO is also likely to be extremely long in hearts, so it's likely that at least one of the minors is breaking very badly for us. So some way of offering a partner a choice seems worth it.

 

Here's the thing: If partner has the Queen of Diamonds, we can handle some god awful breaks in the trump suit.

 

My big concern is actually an opening ruff in a side suit if I end up declaring.

[Gerardo]

Here's the thing: If partner has the Queen of Diamonds, we can handle some god awful breaks in the trump suit.

 

My big concern is actually an opening ruff in a side suit if I end up declaring.

 

But if the awful break is in Diamonds (say, 6-0 or 7-0, even if partner hand the ♦Q) 7♦ is unlikely to be a good place to be.

[DavidKok]

I have 20 HCPs. Partner has 15-17 HCPs. Opponents have 3-5 HCPs. South doesn't have a lot for the 4♥ bid, but it is most likely that any points are in hearts.

 

I expect a Grand Slam to make. 4NT should probably show the minors, but why give partner that problem? There is a lot to be said for a simple 7♦ bid. You may even get a trump lead. But 5♥ is forcing and smerriman's plan seems as good as any.

I can never understand the argument behind jumping on my own slam hand. What is the downside to bidding anything else, and then jumping to 7m? You may even discover partner prefers clubs over diamonds along the way.

 

If 4N is for minors, what would you do with a balanced 16 point hand with stoppers in hearts?

Pinch my cheek to see if I'm dreaming, then double and collect about 5-6 down. As I said above it is much more valuable to have tools for finding the right suit fit rather than having some strength bid, since on this auction you're going to have an unbalanced hand far more often than a strong balanced hand.

[mikeh]

Seems pretty simple to me, although my sequence comes with no guarantees.

 

I bid 5N. This is ‘pick a slam’, but note that if I held 4+ spades, I could bid 5H, and then raise spades, should partner bid them. As it is, I raise 6m to 7. I also raise 6S to 7. While, as noted below, I doubt that we can find a spade fit, maybe he’ll bid spades with say AJ10xx AKx Qx Qxx.

 

I just want to reach a nine card fit if we have one, and 5N will get us to one if one exists.

 

The problem layouts are when partner has 3=3 or even 2=3/3=2 minors. Now we’re playing in 7C unless he is 3=2. And we’re rarely reaching spades when he is, say, some 5332/5233/5323.

 

We rate to have all the honours in the minors, although we might be missing one, and no suit rates to break. However, settling for a small slam is playing chicken bridge. Partner should not be upgrading red in first seat, when I have 7 controls, so we can assume a minimum of 35 combined hcp, and we’re not down yet even when rho has cyber’s Jxxxxxxxxx.

 

If he bids 6N, he has a lot of heart cards. Now we have a tough call. If he is 4333, 7N rates to make on a squeeze against LHO in spades and whichever minor isn’t running. I’ll pay to our being off the spade Ace.

[Cyberyeti]

Seems pretty simple to me, although my sequence comes with no guarantees.

 

I bid 5N. This is ‘pick a slam’, but note that if I held 4+ spades, I could bid 5H, and then raise spades, should partner bid them. As it is, I raise 6m to 7. I also raise 6S to 7. While, as noted below, I doubt that we can find a spade fit, maybe he’ll bid spades with say AJ10xx AKx Qx Qxx.

 

I just want to reach a nine card fit if we have one, and 5N will get us to one if one exists.

 

The problem layouts are when partner has 3=3 or even 2=3/3=2 minors. Now we’re playing in 7C unless he is 3=2. And we’re rarely reaching spades when he is, say, some 5332/5233/5323.

 

We rate to have all the honours in the minors, although we might be missing one, and no suit rates to break. However, settling for a small slam is playing chicken bridge. Partner should not be upgrading red in first seat, when I have 7 controls, so we can assume a minimum of 35 combined hcp, and we’re not down yet even when rho has cyber’s Jxxxxxxxxx.

 

If he bids 6N, he has a lot of heart cards. Now we have a tough call. If he is 4333, 7N rates to make on a squeeze against LHO in spades and whichever minor isn’t running. I’ll pay to our being off the spade Ace.

 

Mike, what is 5♥-5♠-5N for you ?

[mikeh]

Mike, what is 5♥-5♠-5N for you ?

It isn’t anything. I’ve not discussed this with anyone. If I bid 5H and partner bid 5S, I think 5N could logically be played as a grand slam try...possibly even old-fashioned Grand Slam Force. Say I held AJxxx void AJxx AQxx

 

I think it important to keep these sequences as simple as possible. No matter how one thinks partner ‘should’ take an imaginative call, the reality is that, for the great majority of partnerships, partner will often think of something else that, to him, makes just as much sense.

 

For me, since I am not looking for spades, 5N is obvious. Both my regular partners would, I am certain, know this was pick a slam, with emphasis on minors.

 

Equally, I think 5H clearly involves spades.

 

However, once opener bids spades, 5N is the sort of action I’d strive to avoid.

[Cyberyeti]

It isn’t anything. I’ve not discussed this with anyone. If I bid 5H and partner bid 5S, I think 5N could logically be played as a grand slam try...possibly even old-fashioned Grand Slam Force. Say I held AJxxx void AJxx AQxx

 

I think it important to keep these sequences as simple as possible. No matter how one thinks partner ‘should’ take an imaginative call, the reality is that, for the great majority of partnerships, partner will often think of something else that, to him, makes just as much sense.

 

For me, since I am not looking for spades, 5N is obvious. Both my regular partners would, I am certain, know this was pick a slam, with emphasis on minors.

 

Equally, I think 5H clearly involves spades.

 

However, once opener bids spades, 5N is the sort of action I’d strive to avoid.

 

I felt 5♥ put spades in the equation (or more that an immediate 5N took them out), 5N suggested I only had 3 hence this shape.

[AL78]

And this your honour is how I went -2 when overcaller turned out to have 10 hearts to the J10 and out.

 

Whatever, if you never take a view because there is a less than 100% chance it will be right, you will never get very far, in bridge and in life.

[Cyberyeti]

Whatever, if you never take a view because there is a less than 100% chance it will be right, you will never get very far, in bridge and in life.

 

I think bidding a grand straight off is crazy, particularly as there are 4 grands in the picture. I want to explore first.

[mikeh]

I felt 5♥ put spades in the equation (or more that an immediate 5N took them out), 5N suggested I only had 3 hence this shape.

I don’t see why 5N suggests anything about spades. And it doesn’t promise a void heart. Why can’t we be 1=1=5=6 as one example?

 

If you insist that 5N shows 3=0=5=5, you’ll be unable to handle Kx x AKJxx AKJxx, where surely we will want to force to a minor slam, even though we have no assurance that it is cold.