What do u open?

[Gerben42]

Call me an idiot if you like but if it looks like a weak two, it quacks like a weak two, then it might be a weak two! As 11-HCP hands with 6♥ go this is a terrible one, so 2♥ for me.

 

A vulnerable weak two is allowed to have some defence. Pass is out of the question. NV or playing limited opening bids I open 1♥, but not now.

[Chamaco]

A vulnerable weak two is allowed to have some defence.

 

It does, but it's a minus.

Besides, a the proportion of such minus is HUGE here, since 5 out of 11 hcp are out of our suit, and in terms of minor honors.

 

If it was the ONLY minus, then I would not mind.

But when you start to have 2+ flaws for a bid, I think it is worth considering avoid the bid altogether (The principle of "max 1 flaw" expressed by Woolsey, to apply when you have to decide whether to make a stretch bid or a distorting bid).

 

 

Combine this minus with the horrible shape and the BAD suit quality, and that makes the hand very dangerous at red.

 

Yes, AQ6432 is a bad suit quality. Very easy to lose 3+ trump tricks and/or being forced.

[han]

I would open 1H or 2H with this hand, pass is not an option. The decision depends on how light we open 1H. I voted 1H, since with regular partners our 1M are light.

[42]

I would pass, Mauro wrote all the arguments. Assuming we play sound w2s: when partner comes into the bidding and I introduce the ♥s, he can better work out how my hand looks like because I did NOT open, or my hand could be a bad surprise for opps in case of defending. I like to exchange the best possible informations with partner, and I made bad experiences when a w2 can one time be a "poor" suit with outside values, another time it carries AKQxx(x). As p of the w2 opener I want to be more or less sure that I can also lead the suit in defense without making gifts to opps (or to never lead that suit, if the agreement is to open garbage).

Should someone hold a gun to my head and forces me to open, I would choose 1♥.

Says a non-expert ...

Caren

[inquiry]

I thought I opened light, but this hand might argue otherwise. I would open this with a weak two.

[badderzboy]

Thx all, I don't feel like a total idiot for opening a weak 2 now.

 

I nearly sent it to you Ben for the next bidding poll, one for another time perhaps...

[EricK]

A few people (myself included) have intimated that having a lot of defense is bad for a weak 2 or other pre-empt.

 

While it is true that it may cause partner to sacrifice when it is wrong, it may also cause the opponents to overbid to games which go down, or to misplay the games by finessing your partner for the outside honours.

 

When we are vulnerable and so partner is less likely to sacrifice the defensive nature of the hand may not be such a big problem.

 

Eric

[PriorKnowledge]

When I have a 6-card major, it is either a weak 2 or a 1 opener... Never pass (unless too weak for weak 2). I hate "backing in" to auctions. I personally open any 6-carder, but understand others who are squemish about xxxxxx suits.

 

For those passers out there... How many times would you kick yourself if the bidding proceeded 1N p 3N p p p making even tho partner held ♥Kx? Or lefty opened a precision 1C?

[Double !]

A vote here for 2 ♥. This suit is raggy but very playable opposite Kx or Kxx, but the other high cards are quacky, unsupported, and difficult to assess at this time. The hand is 7 1/2 losers (adjusted LTC- "points-schmoints"). 2H could be good, and might (emphasize "might") result in missing occasional good game. BTW, I feel that a solid wk NT, especially with a supporting high trump honor, is worth a game try, especially playing some form of Ogust responses (am I obsolete or what?).

 

I guess I'm out of date, obsolete, a dinosaur when it comes to the topic of weak-2 bids. With all due respect to many who have repeatedly emphasized the difference between a pre-emptive and a constructive bid, I do not regard a weak 2 bid (unless thoroughly discussed with partner) as a pre-emptive bid.

I regard using a weak NT hand as the foundation or base around which all other bids are structured (even if playing strong NT), I consider a weak 2 bid as a hand that would, at worst, invite game opposite a strong NT, and would invite game if at the upper end of strength opposite a strong NT. I would also like the hand to be able to tolerate partner leading the suit, since the psychology of making such a bid is such that it at least suggests having that suit lead. The downside to this approach? Not getting in the first punch or helping the partner to quickly bid a game or compete should the opps be inconsiderate enough to bid or pre-empt.

 

I have seen many a matchpoint and imp lost when someone has made a weak 2 on yuk and then having P lead the suit. Weak 2s can be difficult enough to handle without complicating the situation by striping it of it's (originally) theoretically semi-descriptive nature. I'd like partner to be able to trust my bids, at least a little bit.

[Fluffy]

Thx all, I don't feel like a total idiot for opening a weak 2 now.

 

I nearly sent it to you Ben for the next bidding poll, one for another time perhaps...

Ah! the bidding poll, shouldn't it had been last week?

[Guest Jlall]

Ben had an emergency so could not do it.

[inquiry]

Ben had an emergency so could not do it.

I am emaling the panel the quiz hands tonight. I am trying to pick between ones submitted by BBF members to make it more entertaining to the users to see their hands bid by the experts.

 

Ben

[42]

For those passers out there... How many times would you kick yourself if the bidding proceeded 1N p 3N p p p making even tho partner held ♥Kx? Or lefty opened a precision 1C?

In the first case I have the majority of the outstanding points and opps weren't interested in majors. So partner should try to find me with my long suit - he already knows that I have at least 4♥s and some points. A lead of the ♥K is not stupid :lol:

And when LHO has a strong club opener: playing 2♥ with the given hand must not be funny at all if p has nothing. Should the bidding go pass 1♣ pass 1any you could still bid your ♥s, or? Strong opps are able to bid their hands (or dbl) even when you opened with 1 or 2♥.

[Chamaco]

For those passers out there... How many times would you kick yourself if the bidding proceeded 1N p 3N p p p making even tho partner held ♥Kx? Or lefty opened a precision 1C?

 

More or less the number of times I open a weak 2 and pard jump raises expecting an offensive hand here and we go for a phantom sac (this 6322 is very much alike a 5332), or the number of times I open at the 1 level, opps compete and pard doubles assuming we have 2 defensive tricks. :-)

 

Moreover, this hand is not worth a 1-level opener, even if we consider the distribution: it has 8 losers, and an 8 losers hand is not an opening.

 

==================

 

Finally

 

How many times would you kick yourself if the bidding proceeded 1N p 3N p p p making even tho partner held ♥Kx?

 

I would kick myself many more times if, in this hand, I end up playing 2H doubled down 1 or 2 (and -3 is not out of the picture...) when at the other table my teammates defeat 3NT with a heart lead.

[pclayton]

2H. Reading the earlier posts I was beginning to think I'd have lost my mind.

 

You really have to count hard to get to an 11 count, and this thing is drek with all those unsupported honors.

 

Zars aside, 6322's don't play well. The quacks - well they might be useful and they might not be. Sometimes you miss the 23 point 3NT with the 9 card major fit.

 

I also want to preempt with the heart suit when I have an excuse to.

[inquiry]

2H. Reading the earlier posts I was beginning to think I'd have lost my mind.

 

You really have to count hard to get to an 11 count, and this thing is drek with all those unsupported honors.

 

Zars aside, 6322's don't play well. The quacks - well they might be useful and they might not be. Sometimes you miss the 23 point 3NT with the 9 card major fit.

 

I also want to preempt with the heart suit when I have an excuse to.

Zar would pass this hand I am certain. First, he subtracts points for Jx and Qx. Second, even if you don't subtract points, this hand is only worth a crappy 26. Zar opens hands with six card major and 26 to 29 Zar points 2♥ and with seven card suit 3♥.

[Free]

My first thought was 2♥ opener, when I read some other posts I was starting to wonder, but I shouldn't doubt my first choice: 2♥. It's an aweful hand with ♥'s, and if the opponents have ♠s you'll never be able to show your 6 card. Reverse the Majors and I might open 1♠.

 

In any light opening system however, I'll open 1♥.

[HeartA]

I don't have a clear answer. I might open 1H on some day and 2H on another day, depending the status of match and the my mood.

[cherdano]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that opening 2♥ will increase the chance of scoring your minor suit queens in case you end up defending. I really cannot stomach a pass here, and would open 2♥ if it is too light for our 1♥ openings.

 

Arend

[Chamaco]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that opening 2♥ will increase the chance of scoring your minor suit queens in case you end up defending.

 

Compared to passing or to opening 1H ?

 

This statement looks unclear to me, but if it refers to the fact that opp declarer may have a harder time reading our hand, then passing will make it even harder :-)

 

I really cannot stomach a pass here....

 

Why ?

The ODR is terrible.

 

Passing will rarely risk missing game, because if pard cannot bid, this hand does not have the extra shape needed to get to game. Of course there are exceptions, but bridge is a % game.

 

So, the real risks of passing here are:

 

1- losing the partscore battle

when we could compete with 3H and opps bid 2S or soiemthing else

 

Alright, I know that the partscore battle is underestimated at IMPS; but here we are vulnerable and the overall hand quality sucks in offense.

I would not mind, with another hand with good ODR, risking some penalty, but here the cost-benefit at IMPS is too dangerous:

if we open 2H and we are wrong, the losses are way heavier than if we start with a pass and are wrong

 

2- not delivering a good heart lead to pard if we end up defending.

 

Again, in 3NT, pard should read the hand: we are marked with all the hcp, so pard is broke and he would surely try to hit our suit.

Things may be different in a suit contract, but again, there is not a clearcut evidence that a heart lead will be best.

 

3- In-quick out-quick

 

A common statement for light openings or weak 2s is that you are in-quick and out quick, and that if you opass such a hand, you'll feel compelled to show your values or shape at a later round, at a higher level, with greater risks.

 

I do not think it is the case here.

This 6322 is very much like a 5332, and even if I pass 1st round, I will happily pass even at later rounds, unless I have to balance OR pard makes a move.

 

Our shape is terrible. So, pard shape will probably be good, and if he has some value, he will come in.

 

4- Pressure bidding

 

Yes I know some bids put more pressure than others (and certainly more than pass :P ), however, as much as I love pressure bidding (and that I hate passing :) ), in some cases, the risks are too much.

I believe this is the case here.

 

Sure, I know that increasing the frequency of our weak 2s increases the pressure to opps, but there will be anyway hands that are unsuitable because too dangerous.

I believe this is one of such hands :)

 

5- what if we get doubled in 2H ?

 

This can turn out REAL bad.

The cost-benefit compared to some minor losses due to pass should convince that even if pass is wrong 2/3 of the times, it does avoid huge losses 1/3 of the times, so it is safest at IMPS, all vuln.

 

I am really puzzled by the fact that all the people who do not stand passing only illustrate the risks of passing but not the risks of bidding 2H.

 

I have some sympathy for the 1H bid, but I do not believe it has neither the playing strength of a 1H opener (it has 8 losers), nor the defensive tricks (2+) for a 1-level opener.

 

However, in 3rd seat, I'd prefer a 1H opener than a 2H opener, and pass any pard's rebid.

[Gerben42]

When I have a 6-card major, it is either a weak 2 or a 1 opener... Never pass (unless too weak for weak 2). I hate "backing in" to auctions. I personally open any 6-carder, but understand others who are squemish about xxxxxx suits.

 

Almost, but there are limits to what I accept as a weak two / one bid. An extreme case would be:

[hv=v=b&s=s9743ha86432da54c]133|100|[/hv]

 

This is a clear PASS. How many flaws can you name :)

[Free]

When I have a 6-card major, it is either a weak 2 or a 1 opener... Never pass (unless too weak for weak 2). I hate "backing in" to auctions. I personally open any 6-carder, but understand others who are squemish about xxxxxx suits.

 

Almost, but there are limits to what I accept as a weak two / one bid. An extreme case would be:

[hv=v=b&s=s9743ha86432da54c]133|100|[/hv]

 

This is a clear PASS. How many flaws can you name :)

Playing MOSCITO, this is a clear 1♦ opening :)

[Gerben42]

Sure, agree with that Free. But not in standard.

[Chamaco]

Almost, but there are limits to what I accept as a weak two / one bid. An extreme case would be:

 

Dealer:  ????? 

Vul:  Both 

Scoring:  Unknown 

 

♠  9743 

♥  A86432 

♦  A54 

♣

 

 

This is a clear PASS. How many flaws can you name :)

In my style (well, I do play limited openings :) ), this hand can indeed be opened 1H.

 

It does comply to the requirements for offense and defense:

 

1) 2+ defensive tricks

2) LTC: at most 7 losers (the hand has 7 losers) in offense

 

I totally agree that opening it a weak 2 seems indeed a pretty bad idea.

 

However, I do think that this hand has many more reasons to open 1H than the hand that started this thread : J8-AQ6432-Q3-Q98

In fact, such hand is insufficient fro BOTH viewpoints: defense and offense.

In offense, it has > 7 losers;

in defense, it has less than 2 defensive tricks.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi

 

I voted for 2H, but it is borderline.

 

I would prefer being red versus white, in which case 2H is

clearcut in my partnership, because in this case partner

will expect a 7 looser hand.

With red versus red, in my partnership partner will expect

only 8 looser, but becuase of the Queens, I downgrade it a

bit.

 

As a side note, for me, there is no hand, to strong for a weak

two and to weak to open.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Having said the above, I would open 2H as well without

the Queens and the Jack.