What do u open?

[badderzboy]

[hv=d=s&v=b&s=sj8haq6432dq3cq98]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Playing weak 2's(6-10) what do you open 1♥ or 2♥?

 

If your range is 5-9 does this change your mind if u opened 2♥ last time...

 

How do u evaluate hands like this?

 

Steve

[luis]

Crystal clear 1♥ opening. I find 2♥ absurd and pass is very questionable but better than 2♥ for sure.

[Al_U_Card]

As much as I like to use the rule of 20 to open, pard will only be disappointed with my hand if I open at the 1 level. (Lack of defensive quick tricks is a real issue here.) If pard has enuf to make a game try, he will love my pushers and fillers.

[pbleighton]

1H.

 

Peter

[Walddk]

I know this is a weak 2 to most people in North America. Those weak 2's are more like Acol 2's. I have said this many times in the Forums:

 

Pre-empts are not supposed to be constructive - unless you have 2♦ available to show a very weak pre-empt in one major. If you have, I can live with 2♥. If you don't have that gadget it's a clear

 

1♥

 

Roland

[PriorKnowledge]

This is a miserable 11, if u ask me. If weak 2's are 5-9, I open 1H. If weak 2's include 11, I open 2H. If weak 2's are 5-10 I probably still open 2H.

Certainly that ♠Jx and ♦Qx are not full value so knocking this 11 down to 10 is reasonable.

[luis]

This is a miserable 11, if u ask me. If weak 2's are 5-9, I open 1H. If weak 2's include 11, I open 2H. If weak 2's are 5-10 I probably still open 2H.

Certainly that ♠Jx and ♦Qx are not full value so knocking this 11 down to 10 is reasonable.

It really doesn't matter the range of weak twos, in fact having a range for weak 2's is very stupid to me. In my CC the range reads 0-12 (bite me).

No matter what the range is there're a lot of 0HCP hands that I would like to open 2♥ before even thinking about opening this hand with a weak 2.

[mike777]

No one has asked this question; will opening 1H or 2H with this pile of junk prove to be more preemptive and make the play of the hand more difficult for declarer in placing my HCP's? Opening 1 level bids can be devasting for 99% of non experts opp.

[Guest Jlall]

2H is silly. This hand is defensive. If partner saves, it's wrong. Do not preempt with this much defense. Roland, this is not a weak 2 bid in North America as far as I know... if it is I'm moving ;)

 

That being said, the choice between 1H and pass is closer than most people give it credit for. The hand is a piece of crap, and I really have alot of sympathy for a pass here. I would probably open it a heart since light openings are in style, but I have a feeling pass is actually a better bid.

[Winstonm]

If I open 2H, partner will never be able to figure out that K10xx, Kx, K10x, KJxx will give us a decent enough chance for 3N - but the shape and the lack of quick tricks argues for 2H instead of 1H. Therefore, because I have no decent way to express this hand, I pass and hope to show a modicum of strength later; if I don't I probably have not lost much.

 

WinstonM

[badderzboy]

I debated what to bid and still not sure what is the right answer.

 

I can bid 1♥ as it meets rule of 20 so 1♥ is borderline and I can rebid 2♥ so seems a better bid than 2♥ here...

 

What chances of a dbl or Spade o'call though by LHO?

 

I could bid 2♥ a better bid than pass here and if partner bids Ogust I can bid 3♥ good suit good hand 2 Honours so I won't miss game.

 

I can pass which seems a better bid than 1♥ as I have 8 losers and only 1 quick trick... which may let opps find a minor fit.. but then bid a jump bid in ♥ showing a max pass if I get the chance...

 

How do u evaluate the other suits HCPs or do u adjust and how?

 

What is the ODR of the hand?

 

Steve

[Fluffy]

Only time I remember opening weak 2 with 10 HCP I was having a QJ bare somewhere.

[hrothgar]

I pass playing 2/1

I'll open 1♥ playing precision

Playing SAYC I might open 1♥, but lean towards pass

[fred]

I would open 2♥.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[luke warm]

very strange hand.. i'd open 2♥ playing weak 2 in a 2/1 system, and i'd open 2♥ playing 11-16 in the weiss club

[Winstonm]

I could bid 2♥ a better bid than pass here and if partner bids Ogust I can bid 3♥ good suit good hand 2 Honours so I won't miss game.

 

Do you really expect partner to make a game try with:

 

K108x, Kxx, K10x, K107

 

Won't fair so well opposite:

xx, AQJxxx, QJx, xx

 

But Jx, AQxxxx, Qx, Q98

 

Here is a very reasonable 3NT.

[Guest Jlall]

I would open 2♥.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

*removes foot from mouth*

[Rebound]

I would open 2♥.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

Thanks, Fred. I was beginning to think I am a bit of a freak as far as this hand goes. I wouldn't open this hand at the one level. I guess Roland and I are at odds here. I disagree that 2-level openings should not be constructive - I think this hand makes a fine 2♥ call. With my precision partners, our weak 2's are disciplined in all but 3rd seat and this hand is about at maximum for that.

 

Admittedly, with a pickup partner who would not anticipate this sort of hand, I would likely pass in order to avoid deceiving partner if I open 1or 2♥. I think this hand is too lacking in quick tricks for a 1♥ opening, even playing 11-15 or 10-14.

[EricK]

This is a very nasty hand!

 

Open 2♥ and partner will often save when it is wrong, and not bid games which are making.

 

Open 1♥ and you will often get to games which aren't even close (especially playing 2/1).

 

Pass and you might never get to mention your ♥, or only get to mention them at an uncomfortably high level after the opponents have exchanged information.

 

So these are my thoughts. What would I do?

 

I think I would open 2♥ playing 2/1 and 1♥ playing Acol or Precision. But I wouldn't be surprised if I end up regretting opening the hand at all.

 

Eric

[Walddk]

Justin: Roland, this is not a weak 2 bid in North America as far as I know... if it is I'm moving :P

 

Fred: I would open 2♥.

 

Justin: *removes foot from mouth*

So Justin, did you pack, and where are you moving to? :rolleyes:

 

Roland

[Walddk]

I would open 2♥.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

Thanks, Fred. I was beginning to think I am a bit of a freak as far as this hand goes. I wouldn't open this hand at the one level. I guess Roland and I are at odds here. I disagree that 2-level openings should not be constructive - I think this hand makes a fine 2♥ call.

Please note that I said weak 2's can be constructive if you have another opening (2♦) available to show a non-constructive weak 2. If so, I know what to expect from either.

 

In my opinion, if 2♥ can show anything between 4-11, it's too dificult for partner to judge in especially competitive auctions.

 

Roland

[Chamaco]

I would not open a weak 2.

 

A weak 2 should carry the message of:

- offensive hand,

- concentrated values,

- little honors wasted,

- suggestion to responder to take a sac if reasonable fit.

 

Here, side quacks + 6322 shape is terrible, pard will have a hard time to evaluate the REAL combined potential of the hands if we open 2H.

 

Now, about opening at the 1 level: I suppose this depends on stile and pship agreements.

I personally like to open light, but I also like that, if I open in 1st-2nd seat, my pard can count on 2 defensive tricks from me.

This hand does not comply, so I would open it only in 3rd seat.

 

Besides, the hand has 8 losers (2S, 1.5 H, 2D, 2.5 C), too many to consider it a full opener.

 

-------------

 

Bottomline: I pass :rolleyes:

[whereagles]

Both 1♥ and 2♥ are reasonable. It's a matter of style and match situation.

[sceptic]

0 - 12 ogust style, I watched luis do a session on weak twos in BIL lounge, I think it is great and what he has to say about weak twos is excellent, (shame I can never find a p willing to try and play them in the range 0- 12 (which brings me to why do you say, Luis, 1 heart opening not 2 when ur range is 0 - 12 hcp?) as the Qx's make it not so good for defence (I think)

 

I would be interested to see the arguements Mauro has for his side of the story, may be I am missing something, but I thought weak 2's were supposed to be disruptive and make it harder for the opponents, ogust seems to be a good method to find out where to go from your p's weak two bid?

[Chamaco]

I would be interested to see the arguements Mauro has for his side of the story, may be I am missing something, but I thought weak 2's were supposed to be disruptive and make it harder for the opponents, ogust seems to be a good method to find out where to go from your p's weak two bid?

Ogust (although not my favourite) is OK when pard has a hand that wants to investigate slowly the potential for game.

 

That happens when pard has at least opening hand strength or a good hand with fit.

 

The problem that I address is when pard has a hand suited for a sacrifice, and will raise to 3 or 4H: in that case, tha wasted side quacks, and the horrible 6322 inclrease the likelyhood of disasters such as going for a telephone number even if opps have game or, maybe worse, goinf for a phantom sac (because if the opps were to buy the hand, the side Qx/Qxx and even Jx could be sources of defensive tricks, whereas if WE play the hand, their value is very diminished).

 

I think it's a matter of style but I like the definition of "ideal" weak 2 given by Anderson-Zenkel:

 

1- GOOD intermediates is a plus, the lack is a minus:

Here, NO interemediates, so this rates as a MINUS

 

2- side queens or jacks are minus: MANY wasted values here, so this is a HUGE minus

 

3- side singleton is a plus, side void is a minus, side 4 bagger is a minus: none of this factor apply here so no adjustment.

Actually, 6322 tends to be quite a bad shape, IMO, but anyways, let's pretend this does not apply...

 

4- possession of the Ace of trump is a minus, because it decreases the ODR (e.g. if we have the Ace, this scores a trick even in defense; much better in terms of ODR is JT98xx rather than AQxxxx because if we end up defending, JT9 will never take a trick).

So this is a minus on the given hand.

 

5- seat: best seat to open weak 2 is 3rd seat; 1st seat is ok to be aggressive (2 opps to preempt vs 1 pard); 2nd seat is the worst of all, in that case we must be disciplined

This was not specified in the given hand so I won't consider this factor

 

6- vulnerability: here both sides are red, so a little caution can be recommended, especially at IMPS.

 

Of course, in real life we often deviate from "ideal", model weak 2 bids, but here the minuses are too many, in my opinion.

Also, it depends on how aggressive responder will raise ourweak 2s: all those who use LOTT-based raises, aggressively, would better off NOT open a weak 2 here.

If responder is more conservative in his sacrifice bidding, then opening a weak 2 is ok.