Vulnerable game?

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&e=SJ765HQJ76DT98CAK&w=skq32h952dqj732cQ&d=w&v=b&b=13&a=pp1h(4+ cards)p1s2c2s(4-card support)3c?]300|300|Another hand from Harry Smith's Lockdown Swiss Teams. You play Benjamin, weak notrump, 4 card majors. IMPS. Vul against not.

1. As East, 3rd hand, would you open and, if so, what?

2. In the above auction, Your call as West?

 

Edited to give a more complete picture[/hv]

Edited November 11, 2020 by nige1

[Cyberyeti]

Copied from the other copy of the thread:

 

I would have opened in the first place so wouldn't start from here.

 

What would X from partner have shown ? Are we sure he has 4 spades ?

 

If so I'm bidding 3♦. If not I probably X.

[nige1]

Copied from the other copy of the thread:I would have opened in the first place so wouldn't start from here.What would X from partner have shown ? Are we sure he has 4 spades ?If so I'm bidding 3♦. If not I probably X.

Yes. Sorry about that, CyberYeti. Somehow, I managed to post 2 versions of this topic. Partner tells me that we play support doubles/redoubles so the 2♠ raise shows 4-card support.

[helene_t]

Yes 3d. If partner has a balanced 15-16 ,we are in game. But he could have a minimal Flannery hand also.

[nige1]

Partner says we aren't arguing about his call, but about my decision to open, 3rd in hand, with a grotty 11 count :( So I've edited the quiz to include my hand :(

[Cyberyeti]

Partner says we aren't arguing about his call, but about my decision to open, 3rd in hand, with a grotty 11 count :( So I've edited the quiz to include my hand :(

 

I would pass that 3rd in precisely because if I wanted to be in this auction, partner would have opened. My choices would be 1N or pass and no way I'm upgrading. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to open, I'd open 1♦ and pass partner's response. I would also respond 2♦ to 1♥.

[Douglas43]

Pretty much agree with cyberyeti and nige1. My preference would be to pass initially as West, and as East

 

A 3D game try is plenty (I'd add a loser to the initial 7 because the hand is aceless, xxx in hearts is not a good holding, and with only a 4-4 fit it's optimistic to treat a singleton as only I loser).

 

 

Also, the opponents have only bid 3C, at least so far. If they only have the promised nine clubs between them, instead of the actual ten, it's quite likely that partner has a 4=5=1=3 shape and my diamond values are wasted. I couldn't quite bring myself to pass 3C, but I'm beginning to think that at IMPS I should have considered it more carefully.

 

The weak NT third in hand vulnerable at teams hasn't got much upside to it. I tend to pass flat 11/12 counts, and with 14 pretend to have 15.

 

What did west actually do?

[helene_t]

I think the 1♥ opening is ok (but of course subject to partnership discussion), but I don't like the spade raise. In a weak NT system, you have substantially less than partner will assume, and with this defensive hand you really don't want partner to beyond 2♠.

[nige1]

My preference would be to pass initially as West, and as East. The weak NT third in hand vulnerable at teams hasn't got much upside to it. I tend to pass flat 11/12 counts, and with 14 pretend to have 15.

I opened 1♥ on the East hand At the time I regarded it as reasonable. In the light of comments here and from my partner. I'm less confident.

A 3D game try is plenty (I'd add a loser to the initial 7 because the hand is aceless, xxx in hearts is not a good holding, and with only a 4-4 fit it's optimistic to treat a singleton as only I loser). Also, the opponents have only bid 3C, at least so far. If they only have the promised nine clubs between them, instead of the actual ten, it's quite likely that partner has a 4=5=1=3 shape and my diamond values are wasted. I couldn't quite bring myself to pass 3C, but I'm beginning to think that at IMPS I should have considered it more carefully. What did west actually do?

West jumped to 4♥ to give me a choice of games.

I think the 1♥ opening is ok (but of course subject to partnership discussion), but I don't like the spade raise. In a weak NT system, you have substantially less than partner will assume, and with this defensive hand you really don't want partner to go beyond 2♠.

My partner agrees with Helene_t about my raise to 2♠ over my RHO's 2♣. I argued that partner's 1♠ reply had improved my hand to be worth at least a minimum opener. Hence, I should not suppress my 4-card support

[Douglas43]

As the old saying goes "it takes two to tangle"...

 

If it helps foster a constructive discussion, I would suggest that you both accept that you bid the hand sub-optimally and focus on tactics when vulnerable at teams. I like IMPs but mostly play pairs, and my regular partner much prefers pairs. We play in the EBU lockdown league (only a division 5 team, we are decent players but no stars) and have both learned from tactical errors in the process.

[AL78]

I think the 1♥ opening is ok (but of course subject to partnership discussion), but I don't like the spade raise. In a weak NT system, you have substantially less than partner will assume, and with this defensive hand you really don't want partner to beyond 2♠.

 

I'd raise to 2♠. In a competitive auction holding the boss suit, show support with support. A simple raise doesn't promise the Earth, but I'd have more than the actual hand because it isn't worth an opening bid IMO.