lifemonster Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 N the dealer [hv=n=sxhakqxxxdaxcxxxx&s=sxxxxxhxdxxcakqxx]133|200|[/hv] No, I'm not interested in home-made exotic weapons. That's why I put it in the "sayc and 2/1" section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Black 2-suiters are the hardest to bid, IMO. If playing 2/1, I don't know how we will get past 2H on this auction: 1H-1S-2H. With SAYC there is a chance, if your agreement is to respond with these 5-5 black invitational hands with 2C first. Without this agreement, it's impossible virtually - 2S creates a game force, which you don't have, and 3 clubs overstates the length of your clubs and there is no guarantee of either a fit or that clubs is better than hearts. Really don't see how a 2H contract can be avoided, and unless you are up against a really esoteric pair at the other table, this hand will probably be decided on the opening lead and the play. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I'm not sure I like the 2♥ rebid after 1♥-1♠. This hand is too likely to produce game opposite a hand that will pass 2♥; for example: AKxxJxxxxxxxx Virtually cold for 3NT, and 4♥ is not bad. It's easy to construct worse hands where game has play. So I'd rebid 2♣, which has the advantage of showing partner 9 cards from my hand instead of 6. This bid is rarely passed, and if partner does pass he probably has singleton heart and 4+♣, in which case it might be the best spot. Slam in clubs is also not out of the question on this hand, and it will be easier to find after a 2♣ rebid than a 2♥ call. So I'd recommend: 1♥ - 1♠ 2♣ - 3♣ At this point there are a lot of ways the auction can continue, but you're pretty much guaranteed to reach game at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 How about 1H - 1S2C - 5C6C 2C because opener is too good for 2H.5C = huge clubs, poor hand, unsuitable for play in non-clubs. Pretty good description? I can come up with some long & fancy auction to the same spot if you like, but a nice piece of quantitative bidding always makes me feel good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Since you didn't specify dealer, I will make it south... 1♣ (1) 1♥ (2)1♠ (3) 2♦ (4)3♣ (5) 4NT (6)5♠ (7) 6♣ 1 = easy ZAR opening bid, 9 hcp, 3 control pts, 14 distributional = 26 (25 need with ♠2. = jump to 2♥ would be weak3. = this is a four card spade suit for me.. explain 1♣ choice4. = xyz. game force (i don't consider xyz exotic, but call in nmf if you like)5, = what else? That five card spade suit is not rebiddable6. = blackwood, this is going to be easy7. = two plus club queen8. = off a key card. Now if north opens.... 1♥(1) 1♠ (2)2♣(3) 2♦ (4)3♥(5) 4♣ (6)4♦(7) 5]cl] (8)6♣ (9) 1= 1♥, what else?2= not good enough for 2/1 2♣ now playing sayc, maybe.3 = I respond to 1H-1S as if the bidding went 1H-1NT, this hand is too good for 2♥ rebid, and 3♥ while useful, partner is not expected to pass 3♣ here which might be a three card suit.4 = this hand is now full quasi game force values with a known club fit, so 4th suit forcing5 = 3♥ shows playing stregnth and real good heart suit (too good for 2♥ initially)6 = club now game force, a jump to 5♣ would be weaker, or advanced cue-bid7 = cue-bid8 = nothing esle to show, must be excellent clubs, because partner only promised three and a NICE heart suit.9 = slam must be makable, you have no top spade, and good clubs (remember, no leap to 5♣, but went the slow route. It is, obviously, harder to bid the slam if north opens than south. But the "trick" is to respond to 1♠ as if your partner bid 1NT forcing.. and over 1NT forcing, I would rebid 2♣... now you have found clubs even when partner jumps in hearts later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoob Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 N the dealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I would most likelly play 2♥, but can see 2 auctions that save me from that: playing 2/1: 1♥-1♠2♣-3♣...... Playing any 5 card major: 1♥-2♣3♣.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 N the dealer got to learn to include this in the hand setup.. who has time to read an entire post? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Possible auction: Dealer = x AKQxxx Ax xxxx Resp = xxxxx x xx AKQxx1H 1Sor1N2C 4C4D 5C6C 1S or 1N = Whichever shows 5s2C = Too good for 2H4C = gameforce club raise4D = kickback (or redwood) for clubs5C = 2+Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Although there are lovely auctions posted, and they can certainly be best, for me this hand although a 5-loser is a spot card away from 2C. The 10 of hearts would sway me, as this card makes a substantial difference in the success of 3N and to a lesser degree even 4H. Some lines are extremely fine indeed. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I dislike 2♣ on this hand for a different reason - those spades may not be pretty, but you still want to be in a 5-3 fit if there is one IMO, you are 5-5 after all. It's a bit different when you suppress an xxxx suit, because then you aren't planning on bidding it at all and partner won't consider his singleton to be bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 I dislike 2♣ on this hand for a different reason To clarify if this is concerning my previous post, I am speaking of the 10 of hearts in opener's hand justifying a 2C rebid: x, AKQ10xx, Ax, xxxx. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Ah, sorry, that will teach me for not counting losers :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 So funny, all these 2C bidders. You should have posted the hand without the other hand and seen what the majority do, i guarantee its not 2C. That being said I would bid 2C...rofl. I am a BIG believer in always bidding the side 4 card suit regardless of suit quality. It makes it much easier for partner to evaluate. This is certainly not popular with AKQxxx and xxxx and call me a sceptic but I think some of the 2C bidders may be influenced by seeing all hands. Anyways... 1H 1S2C 4C I dont like 3C much with this hand, the south hand is big after 2C. 4C shows some values and mainly distribution. After that... 1H 2S2C 4C4H 5C After 4H south will remove as he doesnt have a doubleton heart or stiff honor. North can hardly bid slam as he is worried about spade wastage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifemonster Posted June 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 How about 1H - 1S2C - 5C6C 2C because opener is too good for 2H.5C = huge clubs, poor hand, unsuitable for play in non-clubs. Pretty good description? I can come up with some long & fancy auction to the same spot if you like, but a nice piece of quantitative bidding always makes me feel good! The problem is, N probably has only THREE clubs for his 2C bid, and plans to show his real intention, eg.some strong 3 piece spade support, or 2 and half heart rebid,etc. As long as opener's 2nd choice is 2C rather than 2H, there is always room for S to show strong clubs. Possibly1H 1S2C 3C4H(strong suit, descriptive 6-4) You can define 5C by S is to play and 4NT is some kind of last train(strong trump?) since logically it cannot be Blackwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 1h=1s2h=3c4d....kickback, rkc for clubs...wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 1h=1s2h=3c4d....kickback,rkc for clubs...wtp? Lol obvious, how could I miss it :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 That being said I would bid 2C...rofl. I am a BIG believer in always bidding the side 4 card suit regardless of suit quality. It makes it much easier for partner to evaluate. This is certainly not popular with AKQxxx and xxxx and call me a sceptic but I think some of the 2C bidders may be influenced by seeing all hands. Anyways... I am a bif believer in bidding the 4 card suit also regardless of quality, ,but mate... I hate a limit, AKQxxx vs xxxx, sorry but that is a 1 suiter, not a 2 suiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 wow, another example of why i like one bids showing 2 suits.. but playing 2/1 i honestly doubt i'd bid the clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 It is always (well, almost) good to introduce a second 4-card suit before rebidding 6-carder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civill Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 1h=1s2h=3c4d....kickback,rkc for clubs...wtp? To low HCPs but good shape hand, cuebids seem more effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 There is no doubt I'd rather be playing 2 clubs than 2 hearts opposite this: Kxxx, x, Kxxxx, xxx. But then, I'm a pessimist. :rolleyes: WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 1♥ 1♠2♣ 4♣4NT 5♠6♣ 4NT is ok because responder could hardly bid 4♣ on 1 key only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 How about 1H - 1S2C - 5C6C 2C because opener is too good for 2H.5C = huge clubs, poor hand, unsuitable for play in non-clubs. Pretty good description? The problem is, N probably has only THREE clubs for his 2C bid, and plans to show his real intention, eg.some strong 3 piece spade support, or 2 and half heart rebid,etc. I wondered if I'd been a bit hind-sightish with my 5C bid, and gave the responding hand to my partner last night. He thought for a bit and bid 5C, saying that even if partner only has 3 of them it could still easily be the right contract, and it is so descriptive it's worth bidding. 3C is a gross underbid. p.s. "Probably" is far too strong for partner's 2C bid. My partner has 4C when he bids 2C at least 90% of the time (but if he had a 2.5 heart rebid he would bid 2H or 3H not invent some club suit). A 3C bid by partner is slightly less likely to have 4 of them, but 2C is passable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 1♥ 1♠2♣ 4♣4NT 5♠6♣ 4NT is ok because responder could hardly bid 4♣ on 1 key only. I hope you don't play 0314, if you think 4NT is the answer. 4♣ forcing (or 4♦ if you prefer to splinter) is hardly an overbid on KQJxxxxKAJxxx 4♦ would be a nice tool as kickback. This illustrates why 1430 is better than 0314, especially if kickback is not on your cc. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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