4cl is forcing ?

[mycroft]

[1] 2♦ reverse shows extras

[2] I play Lebensohl after reverses, so 3♣ shows GF opposite minimum reverse, so a decent 8-ish.

 

QJxx

QJ

-

8765432

 

If you lebensohl, how is opener to know you have this rather than

 

QJxx

QJ

Jx

65432

Surely you're not expecting me to Walrus the first hand, and send them both through 2NT?

 

The first is a *good* hand. 11 Goren points. Just unplayable in anything but clubs.

And totally eligible for a direct 3♣. Actually, with 3NT basically out of the picture (can't guarantee an entry to the long clubs), totally eligible for a direct 5♣; don't want to go minus in an unmakable slam, you know.

 

Your point of view is that minor-suit hands must resign themselves to minuses when pluses are easy.

No, I want to be able to survive in 3♣ with your second hand, or with QJxx KTx Jxx 8xx, for that matter. I want to be in game with your first; 3NT if I have an entry, but you've carefully avoided even 9765432, so probably 5♣ is safer.

 

Also, what others have said about very quiet opponents with, at worst, two 8-card fits and a 9-carder.