Enough for a takeout double?

[Fluffy]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sa983hq1062d5cj642]133|100|Scoring: IMP+BAM

N - E - S - W

1♣ -3♦ -???[/hv]

[mike777]

Pass

I play any bid including Neg X as game force here.

[Winstonm]

Altough not quite the game force Mike describes, I do play this as a "solid" limit raise type hand and this hand just isn't enough. If they make or when we can make 3H/S, you just have to chalk it up under the category of "preempts work sometimes" and go on to the next hand.

 

WinstonM

[luke warm]

i play negative doubles thru 6S.. i'd double

[Guest Jlall]

I would consider a X routine. If you pass partner will almost certainly pass since you have short diamonds unless he has substantial extras. There are a TON of hands that make game good e.g. x AKxx xxx AT9xx I don't think partner would ever consider balancing but if you X he will bid 4H. This is just one of many examples. Sure you may get too high but in that case 3D is probably cold anyways.

[mike777]

I would consider a X routine. If you pass partner will almost certainly pass since you have short diamonds unless he has substantial extras. There are a TON of hands that make game good e.g. x AKxx xxx AT9xx I don't think partner would ever consider balancing but if you X he will bid 4H. This is just one of many examples. Sure you may get too high but in that case 3D is probably cold anyways.

TOOO tough

 

Wow, bidding this 18 hcp game is great, I need to x and p needs to jump to 4H. Wow.

You could even add HCP to Justin's example hand and I still missed game.

[Guest Jlall]

always be weary of hand construction :P I constructed a perfect minimum of course and game isn't COLD (thought great play), but he could have more HCP as you say.

[Double !]

assuming not playing thrump dbl's

 

double is OK in 13-16 NT system because P will either have 5+ clubs, 4441, or extra values.

just another example of why I dislike strong NTs

[Winstonm]

I don't know about you, Justin, but every time I've ever doubled with this kind of hand I find this:[hv=n=sa983hq1062d5cj642&w=s64h3dqj10864caq107&e=sk1075hak875d972c5&s=sqj2hj94dak3ck983]399|300|Must be the power of youth! LoL.[/hv]

 

WinstonM

[Guest Jlall]

sh!t happens, I won't give up on a major suit game so easily or a partscore swing.

[Antoine Fourrière]

Pass. But I do agree with Double! and other weak notrumpers that you should separate at once minimum unbalanced hands with 5+ clubs and minimum balanced hands, which is the greatest advantage of WJ2000 in my view.

[whereagles]

Double. A no-brainer for me :P

[inquiry]

I double. Not overjoyed, but there you go. This hand in support of any suit but diamonds is really quite good. For the ZAR fans it would be 23 ZAR fit points. Partner will have at least 26, so 3H or 3S should be safe, and if he has a major and any extra, game is an excellent shot... especially if he is weak in diamonds. If partner bids 3NT I have a problem.

 

Ben

[Walddk]

Double. Uncomfortably high, but I think you need to get in, rightly or wrongly, only time will tell. When I double with a hand like this, I try to be a little optimistic and say to myself: "What if my hand had been ......

 

♠A983

♥Q1062

♦52

♣J64

 

The one I have now is much better; the singleton diamond makes all the difference. I obviously know that double can be wrong, but I think I must risk it. Again I would not have faced the same problem if I had played a weak NT. Then I would have known that partner can't have a balanced 12-14 hand.

 

He can now, and no fit is guaranteed. Oh well, life is tough.

 

Roland

[Gerben42]

Double

Agree with the other doublers. In general if RHO preempts and you are short in the suit, you should stretch to find a bid, because partner won't be able to find one.

 

Conversely if you are long in their suit you should not bend over backwards to bid. Partner is still there.

[pclayton]

Double too.

 

Ditto the comments of the weak NT'rs :).

[mcphee]

Double. When short in the suit strain to act, you can have the perfectly sound neg dble every time and if you sit back and wait for it you will lose far too many game or part scores. The fact here is partern rates to be long in D and will not be able to take action.

[joker_gib]

Double too !

 

As others already said, I need to help partner (even streching a little bit) who probably won't be able to balance being long in opps suit.

 

Alain

[Fluffy]

With my father I play this double game forcing, so it would be a clear pass normally to me, but when this happened I wasn' playing with him so I realy had my doubts here. It might have no interest but I'll post full deal tomorow.

[mikestar]

Double. WTP--it is correct regardless of NT range, but safer if we play weak NT.

[mike777]

Double. WTP--it is correct regardless of NT range, but safer if we play weak NT.

Ok, I change I my bid to double, this is why I come to forum to learn :)

[HeartA]

Double without second thought. I have club fit and both majors.

[Winstonm]

You convinced me, too; however, I never had a BIG problem doubling with this hand, but my partner (Al Roth's reincarnation) has a HUGE problem with it when I do this, so it makes me gunshy. (Of course we play STRONG NTs)

 

But I'm making headway - he's actually beginning to open a few 13 counts these days, and he once made a 1-level negative double with "only 9". :)

 

But I'm finally beginning to see his reasoning; anytime he does something that doesn't pan out it is because "You didn't have your bid!"

 

It is said there is safety in numbers, but not if it's BIG numbers and you are going off for them on a consistent basis. ;)

 

Oh, well, it's time to play - time to climb back in the time machine and travel back to the 1960's one more time. Roll over, Al, I opened an 11-count last night!

 

WinstonM

[Guest Jlall]

Tell your partner the only dangers in bridge aren't going for a number. Missing games are a much more frequent danger. I try to avoid that ;)

[Winstonm]

Tell your partner the only dangers in bridge aren't going for a number. Missing games are a much more frequent danger.

 

You're gonna have to tell him for me; he's too big and too stubborn to listen to anything I say; the perfect mixture of Ira Rubin and Al Roth, and about as old, LoL.

 

Winston