Extended Bergen

[Winstonm]

[hv=d=n&s=skq3ha73dj1032ck42]133|100|Partner opens 1S. Partner and I came up with a treatment some time back that has proved quite useful - Extended Bergen. We use "Standard Bergen" so 3D is the limit raise; however, we found that by "extending" this bid to include balanced forcing hands with 3-card support we freed other bids to be more precise. And it is very simple: after a 3D raise, opener bids 3 of the "other" major with any hand on which he would bid game opposite a limit raise. If responder bids anything other than 4 of the agreed upon suit, he is showing a forcing raise with only 3-card support. Thoughts or comments on this treatment?

 

Thanks in advance.[/hv]

[Guest Jlall]

I see a few problems:

 

First you give them more lead directing Xs (3 of the other major is partners most likely rebid over this).

 

Second: What if partner has a slam try over this limit raise? If he has to bid 3 of the other major then his partner might bid 4M and he has lost alot of room. If he has to cuebid naturally, then he will never know whether responder has the 3 card trump suit or 4 card trump suit, and it all gets a little bit murky.

 

On the upside:

 

You can get to 3N with this hand (big plus) while also having shown your support

 

Your 2m over 1M gains clarity (big plus)

 

edit: I still think a natural 2N bid over 1M is the best solution :P

[mike777]

1) This is an 8 LTC hand with 4333, it is not a game force unless you open very strong one bids.

 

 

One other problem is you are losing the ability for opener to show a second suit which may make responder hand worth game now not just an invite.

 

1s=1nt

2d=Now I may want to bid 4s or 3nt and not invite.

 

1s=3d bergen with perhaps 3 card support only.

3s=Now I have lost the knowledge of Double fit in D.

 

Seems you lose much more than you gain.

[luke warm]

there's a whole lot to be said about 1M : 2nt being natural, 13-15 with at most 3 card M support

[Winstonm]

Second: What if partner has a slam try over this limit raise? If he has to bid 3 of the other major then his partner might bid 4M and he has lost alot of room

 

I don't dispute that a "natural" 2N has a lot going for it - funny how we came full circle with that bid, heh heh; however, I don't think I can get parter to give up his "pet", Jacoby 2N. Hence, a compromise.

 

Do note though, that 3 of the other major in fact becomes "Serious", so it can help clarify the holdings with 3-card support and a forcing raise. But your point is well taken that over 1H-3D-3S we would have to bid 4H with a limit raise - a flaw.

 

Now I wonder whether this treatment couldn't be set in place with the Bergen 3C bid more profitably or perhaps we should simply Reverse the Bergen raises?

 

WinstonM

[Fluffy]

First you give them more lead directing Xs (3 of the other major is partners most likely rebid over this).

He who doubles is on lead I think. This doesn't mean this might help them find a good defence or a good switch, but not a lead.

[flytoox]

1) This is an 8 LTC hand with 4333, it is not a game force unless you open very strong one bids.

This would be too pessimistic. After all, you have good trump, good side suit. and DT is also a good card. I would say facing any min opening hand this should be good enough to make a game. If 4S goes down, then 3N must have play.

[mike777]

1) This is an 8 LTC hand with 4333, it is not a game force unless you open very strong one bids.

This would be too pessimistic. After all, you have good trump, good side suit. and DT is also a good card. I would say facing any min opening hand this should be good enough to make a game. If 4S goes down, then 3N must have play.

I can think of 11 hcp hands I open where 3s may go down which is why I play 1nt semi-force to get out at 1NT level while everyone else is trying for slam with this method.