Free Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 You're south, first seat: [hv=d=s&v=e&s=skjhjt74dckjt9753]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1H ;) i'd open 1C playing standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 At this vul, I don't mind a flaw or two for a preempt, but IMO this hand has at least 4. 1) Void - too much trick taking potential2) Too much major suit offense3) Too much defense4) Too good/bad of suit, depending on high high you start. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 3C. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1C for me, pretty sick. Pass is certainly ok. I think 3C is horrible but thats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Yes, it must be you justin ;) I would bid 3♣ without much concern.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Clear pass for me; second choice would be 1♣. Never in a million years would I open 3♣ on a hand that could be a suitable dummy in two side suits - majors even. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 OK I will go on a little rant since I'm in that kind of mood today (I have already posted wayyyyyyyyyy too much...good subject topics). What is the "best" kind of hand to preempt. A very simplified take on what I personally think is that a good preempting hand is pure. If partner saves, that is a good thing. If they X me, thats ok because they make something and I have purity so I won't go down too much. So for instance, I would like xxxxxxQJT98xx as a preempt at equal vul under this definition. The hand is pure. In fact I would like it more than JQxQxxQJT98xx Now...the rule about side aces I never understood because aces are "pure cards" if I had xAxxxxQJT98xx I would love to preempt that as well. basically the ODR must be high. This is my main thing. As a secondary thing, a preempt with strong playability in another major is a flaw to me. However if it's pure thats ok. For instance: xJTxxKQJxxxxx I have no problem opening 4D despite the major suit playability. However a hand like: xAJxxQxxxxxxx I would not preempt. This hand doesn't fit the 3rd major concern for me, suit quality. My definition for suit quality is different though. I think SPOTS are extremely important. AK5432 is a "worse" suit to me than QJT987. Just ask yourself if it goes p p X p p p which suit are you more scared with. Things like side voids don't really matter to me, as they add to the offense of the hand. As a 4th concern I don't like "balanced" preempts as much as "unbalanced" e.g. 7222 is worse than 7321. Fine. Now, the way I see preempts this suit is fine. However, it is not an "offensive hand" the ODR is too low and there are alot of soft values. The hand is not pure. There is strong playability for hearts. The hand is sort of too strong as a side concern. To me this hand is not preemptive in nature, and thus should not be preempted. Partner will make wrong decisions in competitive auctions, and whether to bid game or not. We may also miss hearts, or get stolen from because partner won't expect this much defense and won't X them. etc. /end rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Well, the original hand is not that bad ODR-wise. Around 7 tricks on attack and 2 tricks on defense. A 5-trick difference, kinda like the same as QJT 7th and out. That makes it ok for preemption. At least in my book.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Is Ranting allowed? ;) LoL. I agree in principle with most everything you say, Justin, but even more so at the 2-level. With weak 2D/H/S, especially in 1st or 3rd seat, I don't really care anything about support for majors - if we have a major game or near game we should have the machinery to locate that fit at the lower levels; however, when the air gets thin at the 3 and 4 levels, more precise definement is required IMO, not to mention an oxygen mask. WinstonM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 You're south, first seat: [hv=d=s&v=e&s=skjhjt74dckjt9753]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 50-50 between pass and 1♣. This hand violates all the rules I have to open a preempt:- Don't have a side 4 card major - Don't have a void- Don't have good values in the short suits- Don't be close to opening at the 1 level- Don't have a good hand with a good suitI know some of you will vote for 3♣ but to me opening this 3♣ is repulsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Thanx for the tip. I'll make sure I open 3C when I play you, luis :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 3C also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 (edited) You are 1st seat, NV against vul. This means that you have more to gain by creating a guess for both sides than if the vul was different or you were in 2nd seat, and less to lose if things go wrong. Your shape is very offensive, 7-4s belong in the 7 card suit most of the time, and the T9 of clubs offer some extra security. 4♣ seems absolutely clear to me. If we were vul or I was in 2nd seat then the KJ of spades would persuade me to pass. What do I vote for in the poll, Free? :blink: Edited June 2, 2005 by MickyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 4C is revolting, for the following reasons 1) Double here by opps is left in much more than after 3C, and you have a lot of losers.You'll frequently go for -300 against nothing 2) Most of your cards are defensive in nature. KJ of spades is frequently worthless on offense, but frequently valuable on defense 3) your most likely games are 3NT and 4 of a major. Opening 4C kills any chance of getting to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 guess this is a good problem, it is evoking strong feelings both ways. There are those who love to preempt this hand and those who hate to. That's why bridge is so great :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 (edited) Sorry, I'm going to rant more because while I like pass and sympathise with 1♣, I really can't understand 3♣! 1) You give the opps a lot more space at a great time for pressure bidding, without giving yourself a reasonable chance of getting into ♥ when it is right2) You'll play 3♣ or 3N when you should be in 5♣. Wouldn't most of you open 3♣ on KQJTxx and out at this position, and consider it a sound preempt? This is a couple of tricks stronger than that.3) I put it into a hand evaluator, and it came out as being worth 0.01 tricks more on defence and 0.08 more on offence than xx Kx x AJT9xxxx. The honour structure isn't great, but the shape makes up for it IMO. Edited June 2, 2005 by MickyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1) You give the opps a lot more space at a great time for pressure bidding, without giving yourself a reasonable chance of getting into ♥ when it is right unless you open it 1♥ :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 1) You give the opps a lot more space at a great time for pressure bidding, without giving yourself a reasonable chance of getting into ♥ when it is right unless you open it 1♥ :blink: Lol Jimmy, possibly a fair chance of getting to hearts when it is wrong as well then :lol: Swans belong in their long suit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PriorKnowledge Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 3C for me. 2nd choice is 1C. What happens if we pass and the hand belongs us. Say partner opens 1H. Now what? How are you going to find your slam if partner has a good hand with the ♣Ax? How is partner going to know that in addition to our meager HCP and heart support we have a 7-card club suit? But if we open 3C and partner bids 3H we bid 3S or 4D. Now partner knows we have heart support with outside controls along with a long club suit. If the hand belongs to the opps, we have stopped them from using their fancy gadgets and forced them to guess. If the hand is a push, 3C will buy the contract and is probably the right place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Most would play 3♣ as a fit jump there Prior, sounds like a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 good luck with finding that slam when pard has Axx AKxxxx xxx x oh good point, he passed 3C :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 On second thought 3c is perfect since P is UPH. 1) Tells p I have more hcp outside of clubs then in2) Tells p I have side 4 card major3) Tells p I have void.4) More important to obstruct opp then have constructive auction with UPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 rofl mike, i sense a little sarcasm? maybe? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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