Watch Anonymously

[scarletv]

The possibility to watch anonymously was turned off the last couple of month. It was turned on again and now turned off again. I hope this will be the final decision as watching anonmously is supporting self kibitzing more than anything else.

 

Thanks for turning it off again!

[pescetom]

The possibility to watch anonymously was turned off the last couple of month. It was turned on again and now turned off again. I hope this will be the final decision as watching anonmously is supporting self kibitzing more than anything else.

 

Thanks for turning it off again!

 

I didn't know it existed, but I agree that it should not.

[johnu]

Anonymous kibbitzing doesn't really make a difference when it only takes about a minute to create a 2nd/3rd/4th/etc. random BBO login which can be used to kibbitz another user ID created by the same person.

[shintaro]

It definitely should not be permitted .

 

However if they are going to cheat to win at any cost by logging in twice

 

Well unless we know for sure (and i am sure we all have our suspicions) not a lot we can do about it

 

especially when they can play and kibbitz the same hand at another table in the competition ;)

[gordontd]

Anonymous kibbitzing doesn't really make a difference when it only takes about a minute to create a 2nd/3rd/4th/etc. random BBO login which can be used to kibbitz another user ID created by the same person.

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.

[shintaro]

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.

 

 

 

That is quite correct.

 

However someone has got to be very very suspicious to ask BBO to look at it, but even if they have done that, does it prove that they have "cheated"?

 

Personally if I ever felt I had to "cheat" I would just give up playing Bridge.

[johnu]

It does matter, because if they create another identity it leaves a record that can provide evidence.

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

 

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

 

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.

[pescetom]

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

 

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

 

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.

 

As you say most users aren't that sophisticated, yet then you assume they are (creating multiple email accounts, using VPN).

I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.

[gordontd]

How would BBO know who created a new ID? You create another email which is also very simple to do and create another BBO ID. How does BBO know who created that ID?

 

Ohhh, BBO does know which IP address the users are logging in from, so if they are on the same network, then you are pretty sure it is from the the same network. But that is true whether or not you are using an anonymous ID, or just another random ID that you already created. So it really doesn't make much difference whether you are using an anonymous ID.

 

So, if you log in from a 2nd account using different VPN's and from different VPN servers, you can hide your actual IP address. Now there is no direct evidence but only circumstantial evidence that you consistently have anonymous kibitizers rather than specific kibitzers when playing some matches. That makes it a little harder but not that much more difficult to find self-kibitzers. I think most users aren't that sophisticated, but the solution isn't to ban anonymous kibitzers but to ban all kibitzers, or at least put in a time delay so kibitzers can't influence the play.

This is not entirely correct, but I'm not going to go into more details in case it helps any self-kibitzers.

[johnu]

As you say most users aren't that sophisticated, yet then you assume they are (creating multiple email accounts, using VPN).

I agree with your conclusion however, no kibitzing except with time delay is the way to go.

I'm assuming that a number of players caught cheating by self-kibitzing were easy to catch because they signed in with multiple accounts from the same internet connection.

[johnu]

This is not entirely correct, but I'm not going to go into more details in case it helps any self-kibitzers.

I know it's not entirely complete, but using VPNs or other misdirection services have been mentioned in a number of other articles about cheating so I don't think just this information will really help somebody who wants to cheat.

[mycroft]

I'm assuming that a number of players caught self-kibitzing were easy to catch because they played so differently from their norm that even their partners questioned them on it. For one thing, that's what they said happened. For another, that's what experts have been saying for years about those they have had "suspicions" about.

 

I'm also assuming that some that were caught were caught by being internet-innocent. I'm doing my best to not think about how I would be less innocent; in my Real Job, I have to not only be above board, but look above board. I take that to my bridge playing as well.

[Tonyfrench]

Please forgive a somewhat stupid question. But why is there any need to be anonymous when logging into BBO?

 

Assuming staff may need this feature, maybe I see that, but why the great unwashed masses need the facility escapes me. All it’s ever done is cause issues for me....

[diana_eva]

It's useful mostly for vugraph. If a bridge player would like to watch the finals of the World championships but not create an account and give us an email just to see a match, they can watch anonymously.

 

It was also intended as a way to allow newcomers to take a look around without actually creating a username before they decide whether they want to log in or not.

 

It's a good feature, but given that there won't be many real vugraphs for a while we decided to turn it off. If / when it will be reactivated it will probably be only for vugraph.

[gordontd]

It's useful mostly for vugraph. If a bridge player would like to watch the finals of the World championships but not create an account and give us an email just to see a match, they can watch anonymously.

 

It was also intended as a way to allow newcomers to take a look around without actually creating a username before they decide whether they want to log in or not.

 

It's a good feature, but given that there won't be many real vugraphs for a while we decided to turn it off. If / when it will be reactivated it will probably be only for vugraph.

 

Excellent decision!

[mycroft]

Well, I like the anonymous bridge I get on android (except that because it's not best hand, I get my usual "they bid game 50% of the hands" because I'm such an awful card holder). That game does not exist if I sign in.

 

Sometimes I just want to push some cards, without dealing with Hello/looking for a team game/whatever. Maybe I'm going to go through a tunnel soon, or it's 3 hands in the ride home, or waiting for my dinner companions to show up.

 

Yes, it's great to see both tables of a vugraph match, but until they can resolve stuff so that safe vugraph can happen without twitch, that's a no-go.

[Tonyfrench]

I realise I may have not been clear or misunderstood the op.

 

I can see a need for anonymous play, for vulnerable persons to play for example and as is mentioned above for newcomers to look around.

 

I was really meaning ‘invisable’ log on. This has sinister potential and I’m not clear what the benefit of this option is.

 

I occasionally check results or history on an iPhone, I find it really difficult to deal with incoming messages then so I have used the setting to log on to avoid that. But if it helped to cut down sinister opportunities i’d certainly be willing for the option to disappear.

[Tonyfrench]

deleted duplicate post

[euclidz]

It happens. It's difficult for most of us to understand but there are people out there who just can't help themselves. A few years back I reported to BBO four usernames (it was one person who, when playing, always had one of the other names kibbing). It soon became clear that this person consistently made bids and play which could not be made without knowing the content of all hands. Over many months I made reports to BBO with examples of bids/play and eventually those names stopped appearing (banned?). A short time later he/she popped up again with another name and 'haunted' me for a while before disappearing.

 

I believe that any good reasons for allowing anonymous kibbing is far outweighed by all the bad reasons. Also, I would go further and enable the host to eject kibbers; the Host can eject players why not kibbers?