Everyone sits South in BBO

[smerriman]

Recently several people on the Forum complained that the deals were biased on BBO.

Think about what they mean. Did they mean that they did not they they did not get enough Aces? enough Kings enough spades? Wake up. What did they mean?

To help people you need to step into their shoes to answer their question. What people are saying is: When I play against other people of roughly equal ability and I am sitting EWN or South I seem to lose more often.

These people are NOT asking a mathematical question they are asking something else entirely. They are getting bad scores and they are blaming it on the cards that they are being dealt or the seat they are sitting in or the weather or the Jews or something else equally nonsensical. This is the reason Trump got elected. Because people thought they could solve all their problems by magic.

 

There have been lots of examples of recent posts where people claim there is bias in the the *dealing algorithm*, with claims that one side gets dealt more HCP than the other, hands are more distributional than expected, suits don't break as expected, finesses always lose, and so on. None of these have anything to do with IMPs, since they affect all N/S at the other tables equally.

 

I can't think of a single example of a recent thread where someone is complaining anything resembling what are you suggesting. Do you have an example?

[smerriman]

What my 'little' experiment proves is that the hands dealt in the rest of BBO world are not hands re-used from daylongs. If they were then South would definitely get higher HCP counts.

Where in your results did you show that South did not get higher HCP counts? I cannot see any signs of this in any of your results. Only the irrelevant IMP scores.

 

Edit - in fact, don't bother replying. Had enough of feeding this troll.

[pilowsky]

Where in your results did you show that South did not get higher HCP counts? I cannot see any signs of this in any of your results. Only the irrelevant IMP scores.

 

Edit - in fact, don't bother replying. Had enough of feeding this troll.

 

Of course, some people are resistant to education, but that will not stop me from trying. Hope springs eternal.

Good luck partner.

[hrothgar]

Being competent in one area does not ensure competence in every area.

 

Once again Fckwit, the only thing that you have done is spout a bunch of nonsense that you clearly don't understand

 

Lets deal with one of your most basic claims:

 

I have used at least double the sample size needed as per the Nyquist theorem.

 

"What's the Frequency, Kenneth?"

 

and why is the data that you are posting so clearly inconsistent with your hypothesis?

 

I think that your basic claim is correct.

BBO's Dealer isn't biased.

 

But your data doesn't show this, and it doesn't show this because you didn't take nearly enough samples.

[pilowsky]

your spelling hasn't improved, neither has your knowledge of statistics. At least you are a man of principals.

[hrothgar]

your spelling hasn't improved, neither has your knowledge of statistics. At least you are a man of principals.

 

Once again, you are refusing to engage with the basic comments that people are raising

 

Why? Because because you can't actually respond constructively to the points that I made.

The only thing that you can do is try to distract and run away.

[shyams]

your spelling hasn't improved, neither has your knowledge of statistics. At least you are a man of principals.

 

Once again, you are refusing to engage with the basic comments that people are raising

 

Why? Because because you can't actually respond constructively to the points that I made.

The only thing that you can do is try to distract and run away.

So true.

 

hrothgar, something you will find funny (I hope). He criticises your spelling and then goes on to misspell principles :lol: :lol: :lol:

[pilowsky]

Shyams, recruit your other brain cell into the conversation.

Here is how Richard attempted to impress us with his astonishing CV in an earlier post:

 

"The job that I held before this one was the product manager for MATLAB's statistics system

The job that I currently hold is Principle Data Scientist at Akamai"

I just thought it was a delightful choice of words for such a highly-strung man of principles - or perhaps Akamai looks after value systems and Richard really is in control of all of them WTF do I really care.

Maybe Akamai is where Trump should go to buy some Ethics. If Richard is the Data Scientist for principles I'm sure he could give him some really significant ones.

I'm reminded of Ryan O'Neal telling his daughter that he had scruples in Paper Moon. She replies "I don't know what they are but if you've got them you stole them from someone else".

smerriman has told me not to put in large blocks of text so if you want to find out about me you can use Mr Google.

[shyams]

Shyams, recruit your other brain cell into the conversation.

Here is how Richard attempted to impress us with his astonishing CV in an earlier post:

 

"The job that I held before this one was the product manager for MATLAB's statistics system

The job that I currently hold is Principle Data Scientist at Akamai"

I just thought it was a delightful choice of words for such a highly-strung man of principles - or perhaps Akamai looks after value systems and Richard really is in control of all of them WTF do I really care.

Maybe Akamai is where Trump should go to buy some Ethics. If Richard is the Data Scientist for principles I'm sure he could give him some really significant ones.

I'm reminded of Ryan O'Neal telling his daughter that he had scruples in Paper Moon. She replies "I don't know what they are but if you've got them you stole them from someone else".

smerriman has told me not to put in large blocks of text so if you want to find out about me you can use Mr Google.

 

What conceit! You are an utter bore.

[AL78]

It doesn’t sound that friendly or accommodating if there are people who throw a hissy fit if they don’t get to sit where you want.

 

 

That is what happened at my local (physical) bridge club years ago when the committee decided for consistency reasons, all evenings should have random seating, when at the time the Thursday evening people sat where they liked.

[AL78]

Once again Fckwit, the only thing that you have done is spout a bunch of nonsense that you clearly don't understand

 

Lets deal with one of your most basic claims:

 

 

 

"What's the Frequency, Kenneth?"

 

and why is the data that you are posting so clearly inconsistent with your hypothesis?

 

I think that your basic claim is correct.

BBO's Dealer isn't biased.

 

But your data doesn't show this, and it doesn't show this because you didn't take nearly enough samples.

 

From my recollection there is a significance test that can be used to test whether a sample is likely to have come from a different distribution to some other distribution, usually setting the significance level to 5% or lower. The name escapes me at the moment.

 

The bridge hand HCP distribution is unusual compared to real life distributions in that we know exactly what it is, because there are only a finite number of bridge deals. The distribution is very close to normal, not actually normal because it is bounded by zero and 37. I would think it is close enough to normal that statistical methods could be used that rely on normality as an assumption.

 

If I were doing a bias test, I'd take the sample I'd got, note the number of deals in it, then randomly take the same number of deals from the full distribution of deals a large number of times (say one million) and compute the HCP for each rendom sample. The HCP of the real sample can be compared to where it falls on this distribution of one million random samples, this distribution will be approximately normal by the central limit theorem. If, by this distribution, the probability of obtaining the HCP of the real sample is <= 5%, the sample is likely to be biased. It doesn't guarentee bias since if the p-value of the sample is 5%, it could still be unbiased and you happen to have got the one in twenty unbiased samples that lie in the 5% tail.

[pilowsky]

It's ridiculous - otherwise apparently normal 70+-year-old men fighting over seats on a Wednesday night. My friends regular Wednesday partner, Perry used to race in early to the Club to grab the North seat on Table 14 so that Chaim couldn't get it.

C. Northcote Parkinson and FM Cornford wrote about in the civil service and academia respectively.

(names changed for no particular reason)

[hrothgar]

From my recollection there is a significance test that can be used to test whether a sample is likely to have come from a different distribution to some other distribution, usually setting the significance level to 5% or lower. The name escapes me at the moment.

 

There are a number of them.

 

The one that I used earlier in this thread is the Kolmogorov–Smirnov test

[pilowsky]

The correct test is the G-test for independence, not the KS.

But you have to know about statistics to know that.

[AL78]

The correct test is the G-test for independence, not the KS.

But you have to know about statistics to know that.

 

I've use KS to test for likely deviation of a distribution from normality, I've never heard of the G test until now.

[hrothgar]

I've use KS to test for likely deviation of a distribution from normality, I've never heard of the G test until now.

 

Two sample KS can check if two distributions differ from one another

[hrothgar]

The correct test is the G-test for independence, not the KS.

But you have to know about statistics to know that.

 

Just about every reference I've seen for a G test explicitly warns NOT TO USE THIS FOR SMALL DATA SETS

[hrothgar]

Pilowsky

 

I don't know what the ***** your problem is, but over the course of the last month or so you've gone out of your way to pick fights with half a dozen people on the forums.

 

In all seriousness, go get some help, because this is just sad.

 

Acting out on internet forums isn't going to get you what you actually need.

[pilowsky]

You are misunderstanding the difference between sets of continuous (KS) and discontinuous (G-test) groups.

The G-test has been around for more than 40 years.

It replaces Chi-square for larger groups.

[PeterAlan]

On a seating detail, what I have observed in virtual club pairs games is that the partner who Invites in the Registration process gets to sit S / W, and the invited partner N / E: I've yet to notice an exception to this.

[PeterAlan]

The bridge hand HCP distribution is unusual compared to real life distributions in that we know exactly what it is, because there are only a finite number of bridge deals. The distribution is very close to normal, not actually normal because it is bounded by zero and 37. I would think it is close enough to normal that statistical methods could be used that rely on normality as an assumption.

The HCP distribution of pairs of hands is normal, for all 'normal' purposes. It is, of course, symmetrical about its mean of 20: for every pair of hands with X points, the other pair of hands has (40-X) points.

[pilowsky]

One interesting peculiarity that I have recently noticed in the prime area is that pretty much everyone who starts a table starts with themselves in the South seat.

This has the effect of humans always playing three robots. Unless they bring someone with them.

When I foolishly sat myself East a few times my scores deteriorated badly - of course, this could be a complete coincidence, but I'm sticking with South. At least in the prime area.

[barmar]

On a seating detail, what I have observed in virtual club pairs games is that the partner who Invites in the Registration process gets to sit S / W, and the invited partner N / E: I've yet to notice an exception to this.

Yes, that's how it always works. I'm not sure what the reason is, but it's intentional in the code. Not just virtual clubs, all pair tourneys work this way.