What to do...

[hrothgar]

IMPS

 

Red versus Red

 

You hold

 

♠ QT52

♥ VOID

♦ Q84

♣ KQ8652

 

Partner is dealer and opens 1♦. The auction proceeds

 

1♦ - (P) - 1♠ - (2♥)

P - (P) - ???

 

Rate the possible calls...

[Guest Jlall]

3D-10

3C-7

X-3

P-1

 

I feel if I bid 3D opps are likely to bid 3H since they have 9H so even if I'm wrong and partner is 3442 its ok. I feel if I X partner is likely to pass. If I bid 3D and all pass, we aren't down yet and he MAY have 5. 5C could be cold so 3C can work but its a big overbid.

[Free]

I'd choose 3♦. But there's one more bid I like as well: 4♣. I guess there's no other decent explanation than fitshowing with long ♣s, but perhaps we're a little light for this...

[reisig]

Some of this depends on what a X by partner would mean. If you play support X's then a penalty oriented X is out of the question. What would a 2NT bid by you mean? In absence of fancy methods ..I'd go with 3♦...3♣ is too rich for me...will get an immediate 3NT from your 3rd opponent :))

[mike777]

3d=10

3c=7

x=1

p=1

 

I think p has 11-13 HCP and is

2=4=5=2 or

2=4=6=1.

 

Assume support x/

As usual I try and avoid bidding x with a void.

[Winstonm]

So far, assuming support doubles, it sounds like partner is 24??. Is this 4/3, 5/2?, weak 6/1? With only 1 of these hands does it look like a fit worth competing, the latter, and with that hand the secondary club fit is gone - without the club fit, how are we going to ruff all those losing hearts with only 3 trump? - and RHO's pass with what appears to be 3-card support is ominous - probably 3334 or 3343, or if he is a little more unbalanced it is in a hand too weak to take a call.

 

So my ratings:

 

Pass=10

3D=5

3C-1

 

If pass is wrong, the only thing we lose is a partscore swing; if I bid, we may lose much more.

 

WinstonM

[mikestar]

What is our NT range? Playing 15-17, I prefer pass as we can be in deep doodoo if partner has the quite frequent balanced minimum. Yet I hate this, we could have a game if partner is unbalanced, even if fairly minimum.

 

Playing 12-14 or similar, competing is much more attractive: if partner is balanced he'll have 15+, so I will double (=clubs with diamond support). On some of pard's strong balanced hands, he will pass, but this may work in spite of my void. If he is unbalanced, we will have too good of a minor fit for him to be tempted to leave the double in.

 

A major point in favor of double--it is the only way to show both minors--on some hands where partner has heart strength but not enough length to pass he may be able to diagnose that 3NT fetches and bid it; if he has no strenght in hearts, we may well make 5m, especially if we have a double fit.

[Walddk]

3♦ = 10

3♣ = 5

Pass = 3

Dbl = 1

 

I think 3♦ is best by far. 3♣ is an overbid, pass is too timid and double is very dangerous with a void and a relatively weak hand. Partner will often convert, and that is too risky at IMPs.

 

In my methods 3♦ is even clearer than it may be for others. 1♣ shows 2+ cards, so for a start 1♦ is always unbalanced, 5+ unless 4441. Since I also play support doubles, I now know for sure that partner has 5+ diamonds, because he has less than 3 spades.

 

Roland

[luke warm]

i like double on principle, but don't know what this says to partner... with 2/2 in the black suits, he might bid 2s (assuming he doesn't pass it)... i agree that 3c might be pushing the envelope a little, so guess i'd bid 3d..

 

3d=8

x=6

3c=4

p=2

[Fluffy]

only jimmy rates double above average :lol:

 

X=10, otherbids arewrong

3♦=8, limited at least

pass=6, avvoids rtouble

3♣=2, don't wanna make a forcing bid when misfit is likelly.

 

Don't see anyother option.

[luke warm]

well buddy, at least i'm in good company :lol:

[civill]

3d=10

3c=7

x=1

p=1

 

I think p has 11-13 HCP and is

2=4=5=2 or

2=4=6=1.

 

Assume support x/

As usual I try and avoid bidding x with a void.

IMO the "best" 3♦ is not reliable,as the 1♦ opener may have 3433 or 3442 shape.

[Guest Jlall]

3433 he opens 1C. 3442 or 2443 are possible. But 3D might play ok and with 9 hearts being mindless LoTT zombies they may try 3H.

[luis]

3♣ = 10 Showing that you have a club suit when you have one can't be bad.

3♦ = 8 Supporting pd's suit with Hxx and a void in opps suit is fine but don't you have clubs?

4♣ = 7 Maybe an overbid but stresses club length too bad it goes beyond 3NT

3♥ = 6 Asking for stoppers can be good if pd has hearts, you can play well in NT

4♥ = 5 Maybe you need a fourth diamond for such a bid

Pass = 1 May work, who knows I think it's crazy but...

X = -25 This can't work, when pd has hearts you will be -670 in a hand were you can make 3NT, I would say that is quite a tragedy.

 

Luis.

[the hog]

The trouble with double is that partner will likely pass this - he does have 4 hearts after all. You have no H to lead through declarer. The defense is not going to be pretty.

3C for me, but I don't quibble much with 3D. On this auction you should have at least a 7 card fit: (3)-4-4-(2)

[Winstonm]

Sheesh...I feel like the only one who came to the halloween party in costume. :)

 

Am I that far off base with pass? Is bidding predicated on the expectency of opponents bidding on with their 9 hearts or expectancy to find a playable contract?

 

Seems to me that partner would have to hold xx, Jxxx, AKJxx, Ax for us to have a game - and if he does how do we get there? Isn't it just as likely for him to hold along the lines of: xxx. KJ9x, KJxx, Ax? With a low spade lead to the J and then a club switch, I'm not going to enjoy 3D very much.

 

Could someone please enlighten me on where I am misthinking? I hate to be this far out in left field without a Real Big Bat.

 

What is the risk verses gain on these cards in bidding, not bidding?

 

Thanks,

 

WinstonM :lol:

[mike777]

Isn't it just as likely for him to hold along the lines of: xxx. KJ9x, KJxx, Ax?  With a low spade lead to the J and then a club switch, I'm not going to enjoy 3D very much.

 

Could someone please enlighten me on where I am misthinking?  I hate to be this far out in left field without a Real Big Bat.

 

We are assuming support x, so p cannot have 3 spades. Otherwise we are assuming the opp will bid a "lawful 3H" over 3d when opp have 9H and 19 hcp in your example hand.

[Winstonm]

Otherwise we are assuming the opp will bid a "lawful 3H" over 3d when opp have 9H and 19 hcp in your example hand. 

 

OK. Thanks. Kind of thought that was where everyone was heading. So now a second question: Is the fight for the partscore at imps that aggressive that one should take the (slight) risk of bidding 3D in order to push the opponents to a more beatable spot? Patner could, after all, hold AK, KJxx, Jxxx, xxx. Or is this simply being too pessimistic?

 

Again, thanks in advance. :lol:

 

winstonm

[mr1303]

Is there not some danger that partner will bid 3S if I bid 3C. 3C sounds game forcing to me here, and I think it also promises a 5 card spade suit

[whereagles]

Two plans here:

 

1. Bid 3♣ and keep passing afterwards. Note: this bid obviously shows a 5 card suit, and consequently it is not forcing (with 5-4 and 11+ points resp bids 1D-2C, so he's in the 8-10 range).

 

2. Bid 3♦ and follow-up with 4♣, showing just about this sort of shape.

 

Plan 1 is safer, but since opps rate to have a play for 3♥ and this is a bidder's game, I'm going with plan 2 ;)

[helene_t]

Pass, unless we have the agreement that 2NT (or 3♣ or whatever) shows this hand.

 

This is IMPs and we have more to loose than to win.

[Guest Jlall]

Could someone please enlighten me on where I am misthinking?  I hate to be this far out in left field without a Real Big Bat.

 

What is the risk verses gain on these cards in bidding, not bidding?

 

Thanks,

 

WinstonM  ;)

 

I'm not going to say you are thinking wrongly since your thinking could be correct and mine wrong. But my reason for not passing is that, like you I don't think we will have a game (or if we do we won't get to it over 3D). I do think we need to fight for the partscore. Selling out to 2H with a void has rarely been a winning strategy for me, unless I thought they had a game. The risk of going for 500 in 3D is real, but not that great I don't think. Much more likely is a lose 6 when I sell to 2H. Even when they can get you in 3D X they often don't. Also we have a new breed of tricksters. The law of total tricks requires both sides to be in their BEST fit, and I would take a bet that our best fit is clubs, not diamonds. The opps don't know that however and I think will often misjudge and go to 3H. I think sometimes partscore battles are underestimated and they frequently decide matches.

[shanbari]

would someone think of the danger of opps' 4h contract ? i would pass and give up this hand, it's just a guess.

 

 

shan

[whereagles]

would someone think of the danger of opps' 4h contract ? i would pass and give up this hand, it's just a guess.

It has occurred to me. But I have enough defensive values to believe 4H won't make. And besides, chances are trumps won't break.

[Guest Jlall]

I do not expect them to bid and make 4H. First, they stopped in 2H. Second, we have a majority of the HCP making them unlikely to bid it. Third, trumps break badly making them unlikely to make it.