What would you bid?

[Finanzier]

How would you open following hand and why?

Which bid would you never take?

 

♠-

♥AKxx

♦x

♣B109876xx

[P_Marlowe]

Pass. Assuming 1st or 2nd position

5C other.

 

Position and Vulnerability is missing.

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=shak84d7cjt987642]133|100| Finanzier "How would you open following hand and why? Which bid would you never take?"

+++++++++++++++++++

Assuming MPs, 1st seat, None vul, I rank

1. 4♣ = PRE Unless South African Texas.

2. 5♣ = PRE Put your faith in the long suit.

3. 3♣ = PRE Underbid.

4. 1♣ = NAT Misdescriptive.

5. Pass = NAT Pusilanimous.

6. Other bids e.g. 7NT = Avoid.[/hv]

[DavidKok]

I would rank Pass way higher than that, in fact it is my first choice in 1st/2nd seat regardless of vulnerability, and at 3rd seat I'd have a huge problem (probably 4♣/5♣). The problem with opening preemptively on this hand is that partner might well be goaded into a poor sacrifice and/or lead on defence, (obviously) not playing you for 2 quick tricks in an outside suit. Also I suppose on occasion you'll miss 6♥, but that is not a big concern in my opinion.

[FelicityR]

4♣ in first, (if not using the Namyats convention) vulnerable or non-vulnerable as it makes it so difficult for the opponents to get their act together. Even vulnerable vs. non-vulnerable although it could result in a large penalty. Even at IMPs. I might be pre-empting partner, but I'm also pre-empting two opponents if I bid. Passing in first position may allow the opponents to find their fit before I can do anything. Get in first, Felicity, is my motto. It's not your normal pre-emptive hand with potentially two ♥ tricks available but passing an eight card suit just looks wussy, or as Nigel says, very timid, pusillanimous.

[ahydra]

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

 

ahydra

[razzle899]

How would you open following hand and why?

Which bid would you never take?

 

♠-

♥AKxx

♦x

♣B109876xx

[razzle899]

i would bid one club

[razzle899]

i would bid one club

[msjennifer]

Sir.

The question asked is what would you bid etc in the first seat.

My answer is a firm PASS. There Are 32 HCP missing and hence I have enough time to bid appropriately on the next round.

To all those who favour some sort of preempt my question is 1)Whom are you preempting by bidding clubs IN THE FIRST SEAT? 2)These days nobody bothers or gets shouted out by a preempt in clubs. 3)You may possibly miss a Grand in hearts or clubs.

Those who play PRECISION will have no problem .They have the easiest 2♣ bid available.

And lastly some funny adjectives may be used for those who PASS.My adjective for 4C and etc is SUICIDAL.(HARAKIRI as Japanese would call it)

[FelicityR]

Sir.

The question asked is what would you bid etc in the first seat.

My answer is a firm PASS. There Are 32 HCP missing and hence I have enough time to bid appropriately on the next round.

To all those who favour some sort of preempt my question is 1)Whom are you preempting by bidding clubs IN THE FIRST SEAT? 2)These days nobody bothers or gets shouted out by a preempt in clubs. 3)You may possibly miss a Grand in hearts or clubs.

Those who play PRECISION will have no problem .They have the easiest 2♣ bid available.

And lastly some funny adjectives may be used for those who PASS.My adjective for 4C and etc is SUICIDAL.(HARAKIRI as Japanese would call it)

 

Answer to 1. The opponents, possibly partner, but odds of 2-1 in favour

Answer to 2. Any pre-empt makes life difficult for the opponents, including ♣s. A 4♣ bid especially as if the hand in 4th is strong, the hand in 2nd won't know exactly whether partner is balancing or has a good hand.

Answer to 3. I take that chance, though if we have a slam in ♣s or ♥s the opponents are more than likely to be stacked in ♦s or the top suit ♠s. Rarely is there one distributional hand around the table when one hand has 8410 shape.

Answer to Precision: Yes, it's an ideal system for this hand. I also thought of a 2♣ Precision bid here.

Answer to Pass: I don't disagree with Pass here either. But it does allow the opponents two bids to state their values.

Answer to Suicide (Hara-kiri): On normal breaks the hand has 8 tricks with ♣s as trumps. We're not doing anything suicidal here, but I agree it's not-run-of-the-mill either. Both Pass and pre-empting in ♣s could work here. It's a view.

[Tramticket]

(Assumption: opening bidder, all non-vul)

 

Style matters here. What will partner expect for a 4♣ opening? Or 1♣? Or pass? All of these actions are possible and might work better - a lot depends on who holds the spades!

 

"Which bid would you never take?" - I wouldn't bid 3♣

[msjennifer]

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

 

ahydra

Sir,

Exactly Sir..The possession of ♥AKxx completely overrules any thought of a preemptive bid in clubs where the suit is headed only by a miserly JACK..One does not want partner to lead a club at all ,unless that is his normal NATURAL lead,if LHO buys the auction.OH, I aim sorry.Those who preempt will certainly make a LIGHTNER DOUBLE asking him to lead something((?)else but clubs.And then ,of course he will lead a heart.Or won't he !Why imagine what opponents can have as ones partner too can have a giant of a distributional hand with total misfit. Partner certainly will not expect THIS hand if a high level club preempt is made.And a very large number of advanced players do play well defined bids of 4C/.D as transfer to H/S with 012 formula as per the vulnerability(using 4H/S opening bid as per 123 formula) THANKS.

 

 

[msjennifer]

I must admit, I'd pass this in 1st or 2nd seat. I prefer my pre-empts to be bit more tightly defined, namely at most 1 outside defensive trick. This hand also has a lot of potential to play in hearts. In 3rd seat 4C or 5C depending on vulnerability and the weather.

 

ahydra

Sir

One can also IMAGINE partner leading the ♣King from Kx and boy! will the faces be red as two ♥losers are discarded.

 

 

[Huibertus]

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.

[FelicityR]

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.

 

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

 

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.

[akwoo]

1st seat: If partner is better than opponents, pass. If partner is worse than opponents, 4♣ vul, 5♣ nonvul.

 

2nd seat: pass.

 

3rd seat: 4♣ vul, 5♣ nonvul.

 

4th seat: pass.

[msjennifer]

Assuming 1st or 2nd hand, pass. IMHO the best way to gather information on this hand.

Sir,

Absolutely.I too did say so.

 

 

[DavidKok]

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

 

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.

 

In that case you pass, put your hand face down on the table and go for a long walk. I hear nature can be very calming.

[PhilG007]

How would you open following hand and why?

Which bid would you never take?

 

♠-

♥AKxx

♦x

♣B109876xx

 

I would pass regardless of the vulnerability and the seat. Unless partner opens the bidding. I am staying shtum. With only 8 hcp and no biddable suit ,it's a no brainer

[Huibertus]

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

 

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.

 

You are describing all the reasons not to play those coventions. Drury is usefull as a reminder that in today world an opening + almost an opening is not always game, but that applies to 1st/ 2nd hand too and is common knowledge. It's over rated and Bergen is the perfect tool for Opps to work out the best approach to leads and defense.

 

But even if you do play them, if opps remain silent and Partner opens 1 spades, barring very few exceptions we are going to play the 8 card, and the 5 level seems about the right level if there is no way to get more information

 

If you don't play Drury, bid 2 ♣ and wait to see if its a complete misfit or not and if Partner advertises extra strength or not. In a misfit without extra strength I might stop at 3♣.

[FelicityR]

In that case you pass, put your hand face down on the table and go for a long walk. I hear nature can be very calming.

 

That made me smile this morning, David :) Thank you.

[Fox2976]

Pass with 4 card major. Can bid C later

[Tramticket]

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

 

You lack ambition. Bid 6♣ :)

[sfi]

There are some hands where you want to be constructive, and there are some hands where you want to turn it into a guessing game.

 

I think that if I open a large number of clubs my side is going to have a big advantage in guessing. If I pass, two things can happen:

1. The opponents get to exchange a lot of information even in the first round. I will still have to pick a level, but they are more likely to double me when it's right and to bid on when they can make something.
   
2. Partner might open the bidding. If it's spades, I certainly won't have a way to show this hand (1NT isn't a great description). I'll be struggling to show the hand with any other opening, so constructive sequences are going to be problematic. And the opponents are likely to compete anyway.
   

If I preempt clubs, we'll miss any heart fit we have. The tradeoff has to be worth the risk.

 

What to open? My initial instinct is 5C, but I can live with 4C if natural.